0:00 Welcome to a very major episode of Careful Boys. Today we have somebody highly remarkable who's joining us today. This man has escaped North Korea two times. >> Two times. >> Please welcome Charles. >> Well, thank you so much for having me. I uh when I first escaped North Korea, I really missed my uh a dear leader's voice. Uh so uh I you know I want to go back in and just you know listen to his voice. >> You got withdrawals? >> Yeah. >> To make sure it was real. >> Yeah. Yeah, I got to I got to have that uh you know uh but uh yeah, I uh escaped North Korea first time when I was 14 and second time when I was 16 and a half and uh I finally came to America. I've got my citizenship. Um and now I work as a a software engineer and I have a a small YouTube channel uh called Charles North Korea. Um and I also have a a nonprofit
0:50 uh it's called Freedom British Foundation where I try to um give North Korean people like you know the hopes and dreams of like you know there are bigger life out there just than like what you are experience what you experience than North Korea and the competitive life that you're living in South Korea cuz South Korea is really tiny and very competitive. >> Oh >> so it's like North Korean people can't really get a break. It's like first like 3 months honeymoon stage done like uh and like South Korea has one of the highest suicide rate uh in the >> basically in the world right but amongst that group North Korean people are very high too so um >> and suicide rate >> suicide rate yeah so so that's kind of like the kind of like things that I want to do and you know and uh
1:40 >> can I backtrack before you escaped yes of course >> so like you know when you grew up when you grew up there. Um, did you have a like how were you able to have this moment of like something's not right. I need to like leave this place. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, that is a great question. Like >> if you have nothing to compare it to, right? >> Right. Right. No, no, no. Yeah. Exactly. So, we have nothing to compare that with except like some of the foreign medias that comes into North Korea. Right. Which is illegal. Like if you were to watch like South Korean drama or a American movie in North Korea like you would get killed right you will get killed like I think recently >> so things have gotten a lot worse right uh ever since I've left so when I was there you would go to four years prison camp right for watching South Korean drama it's called Kohaso um and again
2:32 like that's kind of like semi okay case right so you you were to watch with your family and and you're said, "Uh, just go to four years of prison camp. You're you're good." If you were to watch, you know, with a lot of different people and how many times you've passed around that like DVDs or CDs, the movie, >> it's like trafficking contraband. >> Oh, yeah. Contraband like content like Yeah, that's kind of like more serious. Uh, you will go to political prison camp. But now Kim Jong-un actually came up with this law. If you were to watch or listen to South Korean drama or radio, it could be punished by uh uh so it's like a political prison camp for life uh or public execution. And recently, I've saw this uh on the North Korean uh I've heard this from North
3:22 Korean defector that about 10 kits were publicly executed in Onsung area, which is like near the border town as well. hits like we're talking about like 14, 15 like years old, you know, and just like watching South Korean drama like execute them and in that sense like like trying to dream about the other, you know, the world that is that exist outside of North Korea. >> Yeah. >> Like when you think about it, it's like a near impossible, right? because of all the like um controlling and brainwashing that North Korean region puts into making sure that North Korean people doesn't know about the world outside of North Korea. But I was a I was a rebel uh when I was in North Korea.
4:12 >> Yeah, I watched I watched Bad Boy. >> No way. How did you get Bad Boys? How did you get that DVD? >> Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. >> That's correct. That's what that's what you watched. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh >> that was the first thing I was >> cuz you are a bad boy. I was a bad boy. I was a bad boy. Um >> so, yeah. >> No, they they must hate America on such a different level. We're just sending them contraband like this. >> Kim Jong-un is like, "Well, Bad Boys is a good choice, >> right?" I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to watch him." He had a I mean, Kim Jong-un had like a what was it? Uh what was the basketball player? >> Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman. >> Oh my god, >> that was so random. >> A militian man. >> I was like, "Why Dennis Rodman? >> Might they bring him?" Yeah. It's like, hey, we hate Americans, you know? We like we hate them to the core. The reason why North Korea is suffering so much is because Americans and like as a
5:03 kid growing up in North Korea, like we had we had like every single subject had to have something that hates Americans. >> Wow. Like it's it's woven into every curriculum. >> Exactly. So like well personally I didn't go to like um whatchamacallit uh like a higher like higher level of education. I've only went to school up until when I was like 11 right. So like up until then like it's very simple like the math is simple like a like sub subtraction add uh addition and then like multiplication division uh just simply uh like write in you know and again there's different level of educations that you get of course there's college um but Kimlong's history Kim Jong-il's history and like hating Americans like you know like we're taught that like South Korea is poorer than us there are people that Exactly.
5:54 Yeah. So I was like that's the exact the the uh um like reaction for me when I came out to when I escaped North Korea for the first time realize South Korea's richer than North Korea. I was like whoa are you serious? You know >> yeah they're doing pretty good on the money. >> We watched Bad Boys for the very first time like what were how did you feel? What were your thoughts? >> Like a bad boy. >> Like a rebel. Um so um what you going to do when the cup fool you? >> It's like >> the best >> like you know it's like um learning that the America right they're all evil right and I I've also watched 007 as well uh with yeah with James Bond. Um but of course it's not America it's like a western like a Europe right um American
6:44 movies is only like a uh Bat Boys one but while watching that that kind of like movies like got me thinking that well like what North Korean regime is saying right they're all looking like you know like a um like a like a werewolf right as a kid they say all Americans look like werewolves >> that's how they portray right and that's how like so like that's in Korean Korean like ai is like a wolf, you know. So we always >> or like our intention like we're evil and like we're trying to like prey on people and stuff. >> Yeah. And also that along with that the drawings of Americans are like werewolves, right? Uh with long nose like you know it's like they're like demonized Americans. >> I see. I see. >> But when you saw Martin Lawrence you were like wait >> like that's completely different. Like
7:34 Will Smith Will Smith's like those are beautiful people. you know, I was like, "What are you talking about?" Um, and you know, while we're like struggling to literally like the roads aren't paved, you know, like the bathroom like the the bathroom situation is just horrible, you know, that's like normal for us. And like this in the movie like when you go in like chandeliers everywhere in the bathroom like this peeing on the toilet like like a urinal. Um I'm like what the heck is that? you know, like why is he standing? >> Why is he peeing on the wall? >> Yeah. It's like he's peeing on the wall. >> The hole of the wall. It's like wow, it actually makes sense. Like they're, you know, they they just pee everywhere, you know, it's like on the wall, you know. It's like I was like, "Oh, that kind of makes sense, you know." Um, but yeah, it actually gave me >> in a way it's like a it's like a questioning the regime, you know. I cuz
8:24 like >> it was such a so foreign concept to many North Koreans like can we like doubt the regime cuz that in itself is a crime >> right you can't just like question the regime like question your royalty um but I think now it's changing a little bit more after you know like um like the currency devaluation happened um and as well as the Kim Jong-un like coming in and like how he's running the, you know, politics, killing his uncle, killing his brother. Um, and obviously like I don't know what's happening right now right now in North Korea, but back then like watching this kind of media, the punishment was a little less than how it is now. Um, and we had much more
9:16 access to um like DVDs and CDs. Um, but it was more difficult for us to hide it. But now it's much more simpler because we have a micro SD card and USB drives that goes into North Korea, right? >> Um, and whenever again like that goes into like if you were to ask like 34,000 North Korean refugees, >> I would probably guess like over 90% of them would have would say I've watched foreign media in North Korea or South Korean drama. Like that actually got me to think about the freedom right the outside of the outside of North Korea because when we watch like South Korean dramas or American movies we just we don't just look at the movies and like a synopsis or you know we don't just follow the main characters we are like deep
10:07 studying >> right deep studying like what's happening around >> yeah you guys are getting your mind blown you're like is that a leather wallet probably what's leather chopsticks and metal. So I don't know what you guys >> So we didn't have the con like I well I mean I was young I did not have the concept of wallet like we did not have the concept of like >> like carrying money on you >> carrying money around or even like carrying like a like a IDs in our wallet because because it was so fascinating for me that too like the travel restriction is just so severe um and it's so out of question that we don't really think about like carrying ing those like you know IDs cuz like in America we have wallet right? Uh we have keys, wallet and phone that's like
10:57 essential when you step out of the door right in North Korea that's not it like when you step out uh lighter and cigarette that's it like that's >> is it because you don't really go to the other cities >> you can't go to the other >> you can't go to the other cities you're restricted to your own city. >> Exactly. So if like you can definitely walk you can definitely >> to another city >> to another Exactly. Yeah. If you want to walk, then yeah, you can just walk and go. But you would have to go to the uh uh your local government and say, "Hey, I'm gonna go to the city and I'm gonna spend like 10 days and I'll come back in certain days, right?" And you would have to get a approval from them. Like if Yeah, you can't just like you can't just like walk or bicycle or And again, transportation is really really bad. >> All right, two questions real quick. They might be long, so feel free to whatever. You said that you stopped going to school at age like 11, but you
11:47 didn't escape till like 14 and a half. What What were you doing for like three and a half years? >> Um I mean I did a lot of things. Um like uh so the main reason why I didn't didn't go to school was because my uh half brothers are Chinese. Um so right after my mom passed when I was 11. Um and that's when I stopped going to school and then I went to live with my aunt for a little bit. Um, and um, like you would like in North Korea, you would have to enroll in school like otherwise you're going to get in trouble. Like my half brother, like right after living with my half uh my aunt for about a year and a half, um, I went to live with my half brother was Chinese and he he wanted me to help out at uh, his farm. Uh, so it's like why go to school like when you can work at a farm? Um, yeah.
12:37 So uh, so I just helped out helped out on the farm. Um, and uh, because my half brother was Chinese, like he had a a passport, uh, nobody actually came to bother him. >> Is there a lot of Chinese people? Cuz that's the part that's attached to China, right? Like North Korea. >> No, no, no. We uh, we stayed in Shun. So, it's like further inland uh, of um, of North Korea. >> But there are a lot of Chinese people living in North Korea. I mean, as you know, China and North Korea, they're very close friends. Um, and my grandfather, uh, my paternal grandfather was a Chinese soldier that come out to fight the war, uh, during the Korean War. Um, and then he never returned, right? So that's how my >> cuz he found a sweet piece of North Korean ass, >> you know. You know, speaking of that, my grandfather didn't speak a word of
13:28 Korean. My grandmother didn't speak a word of a word of Chinese. >> Oh, but they spoke a language of >> Yes. Yeah. They spoke love language, you is universal. Um, so that's kind of like a a little little bit of my family history. Um, and then uh yeah, my father abandoned me and left to China uh when I was five. Uh, he didn't come back and my mom died when I was 11. Like I I actually stopped going to school when I was nine actually because I had to nurse my mom like I had to uh I had to go to the hospital because like North Korean hospitals like yeah there are doctors there are nurses but like they do provide like you know place where it can be right think about it like in the winter like we don't have like a heating system you know heating system is like purely burning wood uh to heat up the
14:18 house but we're poor we can't afford wood to earn um so uh you go to hospital and then the hospital do provide those kind of things except the medications um so you'd have to bring your own medications um >> wow to the hospital you got to go to the hospital to bring your own medication >> jeez >> I mean you know healthcare like >> where do you get the medication >> oh okay >> you have to buy it in the market and then bring that to the hospital and the doctors are just there okay >> oh my god Yeah, dude. Give me the medicine. I'll give it to you to take. >> Yeah. So, um I mean it's when you when you think about North Korea, it's like, you know, there are some people it's like, oh, free like free education, free healthcare, you know, like free everything, like free housings. It's it's it's free, but it's worse than not
15:09 having it in a way because it's just like >> it's like going to a free shoe store, but you got to bring your shoes though. >> Bring your shoes. And the sho the worst part is like the shoes like it doesn't fit, you know? >> Yeah. Right. >> Um >> and you have to wear it >> otherwise. Yeah. You're gonna get in trouble and you have to like it. >> Yeah. You can't say it doesn't fit, right? >> Um Yeah. So, um I mean I I bounced around a lot. Uh so I I lived my with my half brother for a little bit. I lived with my aunt for a little bit. And I was being homeless for a little bit too when I was in North Korea. Um while I was living with my aunt, I got kicked out a lot. Um because >> from your aunt your aunt kicked you out >> from my aunt's place because um I uh I used to uh I used to uh pee in my bed uh right after my mom like I never did that but right after my mom passed I think
16:00 you know when I was 11 like I think that had some sort of like a psychological like >> where it just kind of like I studied like wedding bed >> and they kic your aunt kicked you out for that. I I mean think about it like no like my aunt and my uncle it's winter like we don't have >> it's a frozen bed >> frozen solid >> um it's like it's an apartment like it's like it's a winter we don't have washer and like a dryer >> like that's not a thing >> like you know like running water hot and cold that's not a thing it we lived on the third floor apartment uh getting water we have to go to the communal area we had to carry the water like a one bucket of water, you know, walk all the way up. There's no elevator either. You have to walk all the way. So, it's
16:50 really inconvenient to wash, right? This kind of things. And imagine that. And like when you pee on the in the bed, it's going to sip through the concrete and it smells, right? Right. >> So, because of that, I got like abused. Um, and then I was kicked out a lot. Um, and you know, because of that, I when I got kicked out, you know, I tried going to the orphanage in North Korea, in Taiwan as well. But it was actually worse than being homeless in North Korean orphanage because kids there who are bigger than you would bully you um and taking your food away. They would take your clothes and socks if it's better than yours. Hey, it's mine now. Um, so, um, yeah, so I I was like bouncing around a lot. Um, and then eventually my, uh, you know, it's it's
17:41 kind of like at that point like I did not realized escaping North Korea was even an option, right? The only reason why I was able to escape North Korea was because my halfb brotherther, right? And because of my dad. So my dad was in China uh, when he left. So he bought like opium uh in '98 uh in North Korea cuz cuz North Korean government actually uh fun fact, right? >> They produce opium. >> Fun fact. Yeah. North Korea is the largest like crystal well I guess I wouldn't say the largest but North Korean government actually produces uh crystal meth and it's the purest uh crystal meth like the Walter White, you know. >> Uh is the regime telling you it's the purest? Because we got some good crystal meth over here. We have some good suppliers here. >> Chandelier crystal meth over here.
18:31 >> Going to take a break right now and continue on part two. We'll find out more about this amazing crystal meth of North Korea. >> Ryan's not buying it.
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