0:00 [Music] Welcome back. Today we're talking to Mike Song about how he's judging a Korean dance show and how he's getting a hate and and all kinds of stuff. Is the backlash that like that happens from like judging is it around the same like what you would expect from judging anything or is it higher than you thought? M um it's it it's definitely higher than I thought. Uh higher than most would think, but I was only aware because I've seen what happened in past seasons. Oh, yeah. Because I know that uh I was a I was a guest judge in past seasons and like I feel like I had the luxury of like going in judging and then like dipping. Yeah. And then I would see that like the other
0:51 judges were just getting like reamed online. Um, it got like real serious. I'm talking like like death threats to like pop like K-pop stars to the point where like they had their label put like an official legal notice like online. Like it got real serious and those those judges left the show. You know what I'm saying? And so, um, the fandom is is really intense. Yeah. Double-edged sword. Yeah. So, you are do you do you open your Twitter up and people are like, "Hey, you Mike Wrong." More like Mike Wrong. Such a, you know, like I do imagine a 13-year-old doing that. Mike Wrong. No, don't be racist, dude. They call me Anthony Reed.
1:44 No, it's like I I don't have a Twitter, but I hear I hear that the Twitter is like crazy toxic. I'll be getting like all sorts of comments, inundated with comments and DMs. Like I feel like my my IG account has become like a Yelp review account where are just leaving angry Yelp reviews. Is it cuz like whoever they were rooting for that wasn't chosen or they got eliminated and it's your fault. Yeah, it's all anything just and but it goes I feel like it goes very deep because again this like uh this fandom for I find that it happens a lot for like Asian pop culture, right? Uh where there's like K-pop stands or and again I'm not saying it's the entire culture, but it's it's Oh, it's it's the it's the culture. It's prevalent. It's definitely prevalent. It don't ████ happen here. You got twisty twisties.
2:34 Yeah. No, Swifties. Twisties. Twisties. Yeah, twisty donuts sound bomb right now. Twisty pretzels sounds good, too. But is it from does it come from like do do big reactions come from things that you've said that aren't even extreme? Or is it when you say something like It's not even something for me. It's I I think out of what what's happened so far, it's not even anything specific I've said. They just were not vibing with a decision. Dude, that's crazy then. Yeah. And then through that it becomes this whole thing. And so, um, and then when it comes to me, like right now a lot of like the I mean there's good and bad, but the bad is like out of all the judges, I expect you to make the right one, you know, as like a as a D. And I only cuz I'm like the dancer out of the like often times they'll bring in like a pop star because
3:26 why why the ████ would anyone watch if it was just random dancer as a judge? You know what I mean? 100%. Yeah, I wouldn't watch it either. You know what I mean? But but you get like uh mogul like a JP or a Boa, you know what I mean? I understand like you need to pull from that um that wider audience as well, right? But the the audience is like, "Yeah, they're if you're not making the decisions that they like, they are um not only are they getting angry, it's it's interesting to see like the structure of this show is so um reality big brother like uh it's so voyeristic in that way that um the narratives you get so attached and in my opinion I do feel like there is an aspect ect of like almost like like hunger games where you start to view
4:17 like the narratives that get and you don't kind of realize this but now that I'm observing the season I'm like there's a pattern every judge everyone ends up leaving which is why I told Anthony I was like do I judge this season cuz I you should leave before you're hated it's too late you should leave midlive taping and then the drama is just through the roof yeah then they'll do narratives on the ████ judges and ████ you know but but truly and so I But I so I understand I I understand how it can like how this happens, right? You're only building a relationship with like such a deep relationship with these uh the dancers and then this these three judges are just the obstacles. These are these damn obstacles that come off like again I'm not saying that the show doesn't uh also like service us in ways where they're like, you know, when we get introduced
5:07 they're, you know, talking great about us, right? But like that's it off the top of the show and then all you get is these are the obstacles to the contestants. And so it's I understand the psychology and then I can zoom out and still be like oh that's kind of dope though cuz like man if when we were on world dance imagine like we were not going to get past JLo though. She was not an obstacle. She was the wall. But but but check it out though. People call her though. They call her the obstacle. Imagine on on World of Dance if like the the way the show is edited is like when JLo said um you know you guys can just like our dojo panel said yeah but like Swing Latino like my back dancers like she said that wait what she say wait imagine like it's it would never be Swing Latino's like uh like routine right and then imagine if
5:57 the packages cut to every crew on the show going I do not agree with that decision I do not agree Agreed. The context is that they ended up going up against someone who had such a close working relationship with JLo already. Got it. Oh, so you could protest it. That's messed. But like that would never be discussed on World of Dance, right? But this not to say that those kinds of relationships exist. I'm just talking about how the way things are framed of like but then you are like I don't agree with that judge's decision. I don't agree with that judge. And so like there's this whole other element to like how things are received. And then you take that and then you mix this style of fandom where like it's it's the super fan, the birth of the dance crew super fan, right? And they're stoking that fire like with this kind of Yeah. Are you a compliment sandwich guy as a
6:47 judge? Are you like compliment? You know what I mean? Are you kind of like hey like that was kind of who's a Simon Cow that judges a Simon Cow I would say is JP. Okay. JP. But are you like okay like I kind of didn't like that but I want to be seen as a good guy on TV cuz I'm on TV. about watching us to be honest. Like of course I have some of those thoughts, but my I was like doing a whole mental prep going into the show because I know like the consequences. Um, and so for me, I was like, "All right, I really wanted this like now that like we're so removed from dance shows and we're like so much older now, like I feel like now our perspective is kind of like there's no point to like tear down any of the dancers." Yeah. There's actually no point. You don't have to do that more than Yeah. You can literally unless someone actually messed up, right? At the end of the day, especially what's unique about these dance shows as well is that
7:37 dance is such a unique category of a career that people who are like successful, worldrenowned dancers will still enter like an American Idol where that doesn't happen with singing. You know what I mean? Someone super established in that world is not going to enter American Idol or The Voice. Whereas in dance, there's still so few opportunities to have a a crazy megaphone beyond online that like look at NBC's World of Dance. Jabwalkies had a Vegas show and enter World of Dance. Oh, they did it after they won. Wow. The Twins were just coming off of being the mirrors of Beyonce around the world after that and came and and even within the dance scene, they were already like top of the dance scene figures. I'm just using that as a as an example. Even us, we were so established entering Kony
8:28 Amari like Yeah. And even even then you're like, "Oh, this is an opportunity to have It's nobody's debut. It was nobody's breakout thing." Exactly. And so like I think you take that here and I'm like, "Yeah, a lot of these dancers that I'm judging, I don't feel like I'm at this like crazy different like place in my career. I have a lot of experience and perhaps I'm more experienced with dance TV shows and just dance in general cuz I'm older uh than a lot of them, but still I'm like now knowing that I'm like why would I say anything bad? I'm just going to be like so basically there it's not a talent show of amateurs. You're like actually peers and professionals 100%. And it's not like they're delusional people like the American Idol contestants that are sometimes like just
9:18 crazy and they can't sing. Like these are all people that are good and and they can't use tear downs. Like they can't you can't have like a William Hung hung scene and then there's no William Hung dance. What up guys? Come join our Patreon cuz there's hundreds of videos dating back to 2019. Support the channel's growth and new ideas and tap into the closer community by joining our Discord. Come chat with me inside and then you can say funny things to me and get the opportunity to suggest new video ideas. Come join our Patreon. Thank you. Link is in the description box below. Dance is also so like um it's such a different experience too cuz for example like a singing show, right? Like how you sound like in the recording and then how you sound uh on the episode is more close than like maybe how the energy is in the room during a dance performance
10:08 versus how it might look on tape later. So like for example, even like the Swing Latino example, nothing against them just because they they have like a working history with them, but like their their energy, they're amazing. They're amazing. Their energy like live is powerful. But I think uh when you watch for example like our stuff on film after you realize or or you discover why it's like a lot more impressive maybe than like maybe you miss some details. Yeah. They didn't have a closet where you guys brought a closet out and you open the door and then you guys start coming. Everybody came out the closet. Kas was coming out of the closet. It's like a Japanese curtain thing. Kinjascloet.com. That ████ was tight. That ████ was really tight. And then Jayla was like it's actually not that cool. And I was I felt like all the fans was like, "F███ you, Jayla." Yeah. If only we could vote on our phones. Yeah. Are you So, but but okay, but if that's the case, if like a dancer is doing his
10:59 thing and he like like does a back flip and falls off the stage or something, do you kind of have to be like, "Come on, guys. That was absolutely whack." Yeah. I think I he knows what happened. Like I feel back there. But do you have to speak for the audience a little bit? You know what I mean? Yeah. Honestly, what I feel like my role is in this type of show isn't actually like this like super judge. I feel like a referee/commentator, you know what I mean? Where it's more like someone's got to do it and I feel like I'm actually speaking more for the audience. So like often times even at the beginning of the season I was kind of like going into this where I'm like, "Hey, like right now we have world champions in the room. We have like Olympic break dancers in the room." just like educating like in hopefully for anybody that doesn't know. I'm kind of trying to say things that like a sports commentator would and just give context and I'm like I feel like that's like one
11:49 of the best things that I I feel like I can do and know that like there is a purpose to what I'm doing beyond just being an obstacle. So, you know that when you get your death threats and you have to walk away dramatically, you're like, "Okay, I did something that wasn't Do you think that while you're trying to point out things like that that maybe people will miss, do you think the show has done a good job pointing out your stripes?" Oh, yeah, for sure. And the thing is, I feel like the show uh I don't think they're like doing me wrong at all. At all audience, but like people know that are watching that have never seen you where you've come from, right? They don't think this is just some guy on the internet. Yeah. like why does he get they know that you like did all of this ████ 10 times over? I don't I don't think um they're like Mike Song one of the best second place runner ups on every American dance. Well, because that's the only way that I can logically understand why someone would just be
12:39 like my opinion's better than you and I'm a random person is if they don't know how not random it is. You know what I mean? You know, I feel like um whatever it is, there's still from what I feel is that the show I think has done a good enough job of like explaining who I am, but people don't care. A lot of people will just be like, "Get this guy out of here." 100% 100%. He's not dancing. I don't care. 100%. But then again, I I feel like that's kind of understandable when like, you know, like think of any sports, right? You might have like, you know, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce or, you know, some NBA like champions like speaking about something, but if they say something that you don't vibe with, you're like, "Oh, they're hating on these players right now." Right. It can switch. So, you have
13:29 it can switch so fast. Flip like Paula Abdul used to like some kid with a saxophone on a skateboard and she's like, "You're great, sweetie." And everyone's like, "Jesus, dude, just put him out of his misery, will you? Saxophone and a skateboard." You know what I mean? She's like, "Oh, sweetie, you're kill you're doing so good." And ████ like that. And Simon Cow's like, "Hey, kid, go ████ yourself out of here." Cuz you need that. Yeah. And it's just frustrating watching her. But I feel like But I feel like because Simon Cow's like an an EP. It's like when you're when you're Yeah. When you're like, "This is my show." It's like that's why JLo got to be a ████ You know what I mean? Like it's it's her show. So she's not under threat of like getting kicked off. You fans can't be like, "Kick her off for her show." Yeah. And if Simon's already the bad one, you have to find your value so you can't also be the bad one. That would be funny. It's like you just show up and everyone's mean. Yeah. Or else why would
14:20 they renew your contract? Like I'm just saying there cuz I'll even be watching Sunday Night Football and Chris Collinsworth talking about Patrick Mahomes ████ basically sucking his ████ for like 4 hours. And it's just we got it, brother. Like we got it. You're you're being nice to the players cuz you have to talk to the players behind the scenes a lot. We got it. All the Korean people that found this video through you were like, "What's that guy talking about? He's crazy. What's What's one of just the most like wild wild comments? One of you guys. Wild comments. I'm one of you, brother. What's something that actually surprised you that felt like this wouldn't happen for shows here? Um, let's see. I don't know if there's one standout to be honest. I think it's like when people comment on like every one of my posts to get through. Like it's just more seeing the actions of like that were like twin
15:11 tower gifs on every post. Every post you make twin tower gifs multiple. Sometimes they just do JPEG for like 3 years. You guys have super fans in that way. They love Anthony though. This is different. But you know what the difference is? I think ours is like hey we want to we want to party with you. You know the it sounds like your fans or the the that show fans. It sounds like they're mobsters that got done wrong. Wrong. You know what it sounds like? Wrong. This might take off. We might have started something. Steve might have started something again. No, dude. What it sounds like is it sounds like, let's say a dude had money on a game and you were the judge and you ████ it for them and then they're just like pissed cuz they lost their house. The intensity is that high. Yeah. Yeah. But they're
16:02 like 13-year-old girls. But I feel like the intensity of an emotional connection for a a K-pop stand is higher than a guy who lost a million dollars. True. You know what I mean? I think it's even higher cuz their life is probably like it's so tethered to like seeing the person they want happy to be happy. That's like when Taylor Swift just got her catalog back and all these all these girls are on in their cars like filming themselves crying. Like I think that's real fandom. Like that's like I mean yeah it's toxic and it's it's psychotic but that's honestly it is real fandom. I respect the game, but man, it's hard to watch that stuff sometimes. It is absolutely hard. Also, it's like this is like when you have to judge art, like the whole point is subjectivity. So, like as a judge, you have to have an opinion on an art versus like a basketball game if you're a referee. Like a point's a point. A, you know, they don't care about fairness. A foul's a foul. Well, that's why if they
16:53 glorified the referees in NBA, we would be hating on them. Oh, well, we know some of their names cuz cuz they do some whack halls. Some of them are paid off. Is this like something that you can agree with? Because I just thought of this idea and I don't know if I'm right, but I feel like as intense and as crazy as like K-pop and and maybe like Korean fandom is where you get death threats and all this stuff are more stars who have been killed by their fans American killed by their fans like murdered by them like like where the threat actually goes through. It doesn't happen as much in Asia as much as it does here, right? Okay. But like murdered by their fans or like because of everything else like self murder. Oh well that's different. Yeah. Do we know? I think that's a huge difference. Yeah. I feel like here like you know the threats that fans give happens more easier from they carry it out in Asian fandom there's more threats. American
17:44 fandom there's more execution. Okay. And then you also got to separate like like pop fandom because that's like what we're basically talking about, right? Versus like rat beef murdering, right? Oh rap beef. Oh no, that's separate. That's also that's separate. That's separate. Definitely. Apparently, it's all Diddy. It's all It's not fandom. You could have no viewers. Do we know if Mark Dy Chapman was a fan or not? Of Lennon? Like, was he like a fan fan? I'm sure he was obsessed with him in some way. I mean, what about Selena? Selena. Yeah. Was that a fan or No, it was like her manager that was stealing money from her and she Christina Grimmie. Dude, Christina Grimmie. That's what I mean. It's like even though we like Americans talk a big thing about like, dude, freaking K-pop people are crazy. They do those death threats, but like we actually ████ do it here, which is crazy because we have a gun problem. I know. And even even the ones that don't carry out as bad cuz even those that like they they come close to that like
18:35 remember Britney Spears had that crazy stalker that was like or like hidden her closet or some crazy ████ Yeah, even Paul Abdul happened to um one of the Beatles guy attacked him in his home with a knife. Oh my. Yeah, like that. So, I feel like I feel like the I feel like the cave fans are they're more like active, but they're not as active. I see. In these streets, they're more like they're just little girls. They just seem like they're trying to express the intensity of how much they want this thing. That is wild to be like slipping on somebody's DM with a death threat off of like your personal like account, but they're just so worked up. But I will say the the levels to which it um at its highest level in Korea, there have been instances where there was such obsessions uh over um like there was a
19:27 what was it called? Um there's a rap group in Korea, right? And there was this crazy obsession in Korea where one of them was from uh America. His name is Tableau. Uh, I forget what this group's called right now, but um, Tablo is the the one of the rappers from the group who's from America and um, he he went to Stanford or something and so like that was like a part of like what people said he's like the smartest rapper, right? He's a super talented dude and just like very like charismatic guy, right? Um, but then like somewhere along the line some fans got obsessed with the idea where they thought that he was lying about it, right? This became this huge thing in Korea. I'm talking like unimaginable in America where this there were TV shows about it where the
20:17 TV show it was literally Tableau going back like they would go to Stanford and look for his records. I'm not joking. It sounds insane. Wo. Then the Korean government and like police got into it where they did an investigation. Oh my god. I I know it sounds crazy, but I'm telling you how insane the fandom and the forums once the mob mentality starts to circulate and people can't let go. And even though they found the records, you you guys know even in America this exists. This is just around the world where people do not want to be wrong, especially when there's mob mentality, right? And once they commit to that idea, this was a huge rabbit hole story that happened in Korea and it's like this like it's a really interesting case study. a psychology online mom. So it got squashed that he was in fact a student and everything they would let it go. They're still and they still
21:07 couldn't they couldn't let go and they got squashed multiple times. So it's like the earth is flat no matter what you do with the light. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, are we sure about this brother? You see my light? Cuz we we have those here. It's called Qanon. K-pop star. I mean K-pop fans are just Qanon. It's the same thing. Konart. So they still believe that it was some kind of a forgery or that he I think most of Korea knows what's up now. This is my understanding that it's all good cuz they're still like doing their thing and like killing it now. But but um and that's the other thing about this like crazy um rabbit hole of fans cuz again there's a lot of fans where it's like a very positive thing for them too. Like straight up like I really do believe that. Why you lying? You didn't go to stepper. But for this this rabbit hole like um there's no repercussions for
21:58 like what they've also done, right? They you can just be like and like who knows what like that's done to so many people's lives, right? But then they can just disappear and move on to the next thing. My question is, does production of the these big Korean shows, like even the one you're on, do they uh monetize how insane some fans can be where they they don't try to suppress or quell it or do they like you said where they have a legal notice or something? How often does that happen when they're trying to like even out the crazy? Uh, I think I think they're definitely trying to balance it because, you know, there's not Especially in Korea, they know how chaotic it can get. So like they're not trying to push things over the edge in that way for sure because of all these past case studies where it's gone too far because if it went too far it would kill the show. For sure. For sure. For sure. So they're not they're not trying
22:48 to push it to that degree. But it's definitely like it's I feel like there's still all these interwoven like social media psychological things that we all interpret as like oh it's just the way things are. But I feel like there's still so much to unravel and hopefully fix because if everyone understood how this like mob mentality really worked, like maybe some of these things wouldn't happen. Dream on, brother.
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