0:00 So, I've been in the position where I'm kind of doing favors for people sometimes, and it's like favors that equate to real work that I'm doing for them for free cuz they just need something. Usually the first one I'm like, "Yeah, why not? I'll help you out." And then we're at like favor number three or four. When do you stop doing free favors for somebody? >> You already established the a relationship, so they now expect it from you. Is this also something you usually get paid for, too? >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> but they but they they specifically say, "Can you do me this favor?" And every single time it's, "Can you do me this favor?" >> It's it's always said in a different way. I I mean, for without being cryptic about it, it's like music work, right? It's not It's not being said as do me this favor. It's in the in the world of
0:50 like creative people. You guys have heard it million times. >> We all do free stuff. Yeah. like, hey, we we're doing this thing >> and you want to like we want you to be part of it. >> Yeah. >> So, it has the guys that everyone's doing it for free, >> which they are, but the benefit and the credit is only going to the people. >> You don't get credit. >> Not not in the credit. I want like >> it it's not credit where I would gain an equal amount of credit as everyone else, but I'm doing a lot of work. >> I think I think it depends on how much time has passed. >> How much time has passed. So like let's say they came at you with this um 10 years ago and then again 3 years after that and then again >> like >> it is sort Yeah. I guess in this case it is sort of like that. >> I I think if you have that friendship and relationship I think it's fine.
1:41 >> What if that's the only thing that defines the relationship though? >> Then it's ████ >> But the difference is that I'm not asking anything of them. I've never I've never asked a favor from them >> and they have more money than me. Then you like scamming yourself. >> I think that's what it is. You really like scamming yourself. >> Do do you think it would be a hard conversation to have to be like, "Hey, like I did these four like for free uh moving forward like I would still love to help but like I would need to be compensated because this is literally what I do for a living." So here the the way that I see it and I could be completely like obtuse about it is that once we because I didn't know we would get to this position >> I already feel disrespected to where like that's so many times of like not paying me to do ████ that you probably pay other people to do that I'm like I see how you see me. So to have that conversation feels like either way
2:32 whether I just cut them off >> or if I have that conversation I'm not going to get paid work from them. Either way. >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz it's almost >> I don't think they're going to start paying me now. >> Cuz you're almost like disappointed how like how did you not even recognize this relationship and you not even bringing it up like, "Hey, I'll break some bread with you cuz you did the other two for free order." Yeah, I see. >> Are they family or Asian? >> Neither. Neither. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. If it was family or Asian, I would do it for >> Oh, why charge them immediately? It's not even a question. >> I think it's the the thing where you don't ask. I think it's normal if they're also doing it, too. I think that's a normal friendship, right? Where you're like, "Yeah, I got you." And then you do the work and then year later, you know, you go, "Hey, I got I got something for you." And then it's like, "Motherfucker, you better not charge me." I think that's normal. >> But in your case,
3:23 >> they probably go, "Oh, who we going to get to do the sound? Oh, Ryan. Ryan, dude, that guy always comes through. Let's call Ryan. He'll do it. He'll do it. He'll ████ do it. He's down. Oh, this is easy for him." I get I get I guarantee you that's the conversation that they have. >> Yeah, probably. >> And then they're like, "Ryan's the man. He does it. He does it for free." >> Well, cuz people like to do this thing where they they um pump up the excitement level of the project. >> Yeah. >> To make it feel like >> get in on it. Yeah. Exactly. Have you ever done like uh let's say like you do free standup over and over for the same thing? >> Yeah. My whole life. >> But have you ever done it for like a like a favor for a friend? >> Yeah. Yeah. They like if a friend you're like yo can you do this as a non for profofit just do it for free >> how many of those could you do before going what the ████ happening here >> if they're getting so in standup I feel like it's like if the show if you're
4:14 making a lot of money you should be splitting some of that >> if it's non for profofit I get it if you're like donating to a cause that's fine >> or if you're losing money >> you know like you get it right yeah if you're making money like actively you should be giving that some to like even if we're friends you know what I mean >> if you're making If you're actually making money, like I might do a couple for free, but like eventually it's like, dude, if this is for profit and you're making money and you're paying all the other comics, why are you not paying me? >> So, if you were to say like, "Hey, are you making money from this?" Let's say like Jason, like use Jason Chenny cuz it's funny to ████ on him. Let's say he goes, "I want to do the Jason Chenny comedy night." And he hires hires you to be. >> Well, there's not going to be anyone there, so why would I go? >> Yeah, you you'd be a feature and he's like, "But I can't pay you cuz I don't make money from it." How many of those are you going to do? Well, he doesn't he's he's a pretty good guy, but he wouldn't do that. But, um, if he if he did, I would do like I'll do like Well,
5:05 here's the other thing with comedy, though. It's like the other they sell you on the the equivalent of producers like, "Hey, you get the exposure." You know what I mean? Like they put you in front of an audience, like you get So, like I think depending on what stage of your career you're in, like if you're on the bottom, like you kind of do that a lot. You do a lot of shows for >> Yeah. >> for that because it's just like, "Oh, I just need the stage time or I just need the exposure." Uh, but I don't know at a certain point you kind of like weigh it yourself. >> I guess it's more similar of an experience to say what if someone's hiring you to write their set. >> Now you're doing like actual work just for them. So that you should be getting compensated for >> if it's your friend and they want you to do one time and then it becomes two and three. >> I think it becomes cuz I had a friend who like who did like uh like Asian massage stuff >> was a jack off at the end. only for me. But so like
5:55 >> what's his name? >> He's I'll tell you after the show. >> Rupert Lee. >> He like so he would do like you know like massages at the jiu-jitsu gym and stuff right like afterwards. And like I would like he would like fix my arm or whatever stuff and then like you know other people would actually go to him and he'll be like yo like how much is the services? I was like oh I don't know. I don't pay him cuz he's my friend right. And and then the the friend that I was talking to he's like no. He's like, "No." He's like, "To me, uh, even though they're my friends, if I don't pay you, that's me not respecting your business." And then I was like, "Oh, no, you're right." And then I was like, "Yeah, that's ████ up. I should have been paying him this like whole time." So now, like >> I don't like he doesn't massage me anymore because of that. But no, like I paid him. I paid >> someone else. I When he said that, it got to me. I was like, "You're right." >> Oh, yeah. >> It doesn't matter that we're friends.
6:45 You're just not respecting my business. Yeah. Mhm. >> But then you know how like Asian style is like you kind of clock when someone does you a favor and then you just want to give or do something back or like it's it it's this. It's like when you're a friend, right? Like you you kind of give each other. But then if someone's only taking then you go like that's not an equal friendship. >> Yeah. Well, that I mean there's also different there's different Asian dynamics uh where you guys are friends but also one's like older and it's it's always one way too and it's meant to stay one way and that's just how it is because that's how it was for my older whatever. >> No, that's 100% true. >> Which which is why in his case that was really funny that he's like is this an Asian person or not? >> That is true >> cuz that makes it completely different. Yeah, >> but I I will say one of the things in the creative space, it is really hard because um not to say this to be overly
7:36 forgiving, but uh it's hard when nobody knows where you're at with what your hustle is at. The the concept of where you're trying to get exposure for a different type of service, especially if you don't put yourself out there in a certain way, if you're not like 100% social media all the time, this is what I do, this is what I'm working on, blah blah blah. Sometimes they they might be lost in the five years ago thinking like, "Oh, but this is what he loves to do." Yeah, that Ryan. Yeah, he's the he's the man. He's so like he does this for because it's his free time, you know? Like, and there's random assumption. I'm not saying it's right. I think I I'm guilty of the same thing. Like I I'll have like videographers, especially when it comes to like a a part of the production that I need, but it's not my skill. I'm not so hyperfocused in understanding not not trying to disrespect their business but you know you have that slightly relationship thing where it's like oh we just do this with each other
8:26 >> and sometimes I'll abuse that without knowing you know sometimes it's like oh I thought this is kind of what we do and like that was our mutual relationship >> but what I will say is there's never been a time where that friend or that peer or that coworker or whatever brought up very even casually or civily hey uh is there any I can get paid for this or if even if I say something it's like hey can I get a little bit more there's never been a time where I didn't compromise in their favor cuz I know that the second they're willing to bring it up means that I might have probably stepped over the line and I should kind of overcompensate and make sure I'm taking care of the situation if I ever want to work with them again. >> But them bringing it up is is kind of the first step. Um because that's just kind of the industry. You know what I'm saying? So it's like it's it's really it's I would say in your situation obviously you're being taken advantage of but at the same time it's like just
9:16 the best thing you can do is say something. Even if that means it doesn't go where you want at least like you've said something that's why the next time when you don't work with them there's a very clear like almost paper trail. >> How do I get to three? >> Three is not that nice. >> He's a ████ nice guy. >> After one that's the free sample. The first time he was telling me about this, I got afraid he was talking about me. And I was like I was like my dad because he knows who he knows who I'm talking about. >> Above and beyond in general, I think you're just I think you ████ take pride in your work. >> Well, I also I also assumed I might ask for something from them someday, too, and I just never did. So, that that plays a little bit of a role, too. I was doing favors to like maybe someday I might need something. >> How long does it take you to do one of these each time you do it? Like what's the hour investment? >> Several days I think.
10:06 >> Okay. So this is like a good amount of work. >> But that's also the artist argument, right? It's like how long it takes him several days. It took him ████ years to master what he can now do in several days. That's why other people pay him like top dollar. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He should be getting compensated. Several days is a lot of time. Like I had a clip guy who I sometimes made stuff for me. And in the beginning he was like, I just want to like fine-tune my skills. I'll do this for free for you. I was like, yeah man, go ahead. Yeah. >> And then like after a while when he got like good at it, I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to pay you now cuz otherwise it's like >> I'm just like taking advantage of you at a certain point." You know what I mean? >> There's always like that define the relationship moment that at the end of the day it's always going to be a gray area and and it it will take two to tangle. >> It requires him to to bring it up though, right? You're hoping that the other side recognizes the relationship as well. You're hoping, but at the end of the day, you always got to fight for
10:56 yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's the equivalent of like like if you were writing for like Joe Koy or something was just like can you write me this thing. It's like it's not like a friend of mine that's at an equal level as me. It's somebody that's actively has a lot of money and resources. >> Well they should in my mind if Joy was asking me to do stuff I'm like Joe Koy you have so much money like you should pay me. >> I would actually allow it better if it was my like my friend who were like at the same level cuz I'm like I know you're kind of broke too you know what I mean? So, it's like, yeah, we can just like do favors for each other. But if you have like a gajillion dollars, then yeah. Are you getting ████ by Drake? >> No. >> But it's like it's like the feeling of like you you do something for free cuz you think, "Oh, I'll do this gesture." And then in the future they'll hire me for real >> cuz they they see your they see your portfolio. They're like, "This is sick." >> Yeah. But it's like one of those things
11:47 where I'm like, "How many I just wanted to know how many you guys let happen of that?" Most people don't ever ask me of anything. I'm actually just asking them a lot of the times and I'm usually the one paying them. So like, yeah, I'm probably the one that's someone's out there. >> Sometimes we get lucky, >> ████ Joe, man. ████ pays me as ████ >> Sometimes you get lucky in those situations, right? You know when you randomly hook a friend up and then they pay you out and you're like, "Whoa, I didn't expect this." It's going to go the other way, too. >> Yeah, that doesn't happen to me as much. Damn. >> I just hear about it. My tattoo.
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