0:00 [Music] Anthony brought up a uh really good observation Eric way as somebody who is so good very clearly at so many complicated things what do you actually suck at so many things I've since realized the secret of life it's Min maxing you find your strengths you double down on them and you put yourself in as many situations where you got to show off your strengths and hide your weaknesses okay how do you even find what your strength is okay well keep talking cuz I no I think that's important I think that's important because I still don't know what my strengths are I think the stuff that you find easier to do than other people that you actually enjoy yeah but for me a lot of the stuff I'm not good at for example I am terrible at organization I am really bad at staying
0:53 chill and calm intense moments I'm not good at just like getting into the nitty-gritty tactical stuff I used to grow up thinking from my parents you got to work hard on that stuff it's like you know I don't like math I don't like science cool let me go be Premed in school work in finance instead of all the stuff I was good at which was like debate and reading and media it's like all that stuff you you can't get a job great example when I was at Harvard I got a C minus in my introduction to computer science course CU I just didn't really like it and I also turned in my final project late because I was really depressed and I wasn't working well and I didn't s it on time oh next semester I took a psychology course I got the highest grade in the entire group I think on one of the first exams I got 100 I got perfect out of perfect wow I took a history course actually with Larry Summers and I got one of the
1:44 highest scores in one of the exams there and it wasn't hard for me and so that's when I was like huh instead of like trying to do all this ████ I'm not good at what if I just double down things I like which is learning talking with people that sort of stuff yeah yeah so like for instance we just came back from Mexico City because my company we did an offsite there and my co-founder my co-coo will he ████ crushed it and he let it because that sort of stuff it's about a big group of people and it's coordinating through six seven days of activities I can't do that I just get way too tired but when we're doing the podcast I asked if you wanted to join I'm here because I enjoy it so much more so I think the secret in life is just find ways to hide this ████ your wow men maxing I never heard that term
2:34 before even though like I I totally understand that philosophy you're like maximizing your mids it's so it's it's from video games when you're making a character you usually have like 20 points and you can choose exactly allocate for like strength Charisma intelligence and you know one way is Five Points in everything medium strong medium charismatic medium all the way across and I've since realized no no like put all those 20 points into one thing all dexterity yeah or like all strength and then find friends who also mid maxed and dumped all their points so if I can put 20 points into strength and I have zero and everything else you can have 20 points in Charisma and do the talking for me yeah now your unit's Unstoppable yeah then as a group as a team you're good like literally from an economic perspective we evolved as a civilization when we changed from I am a
3:25 self-sufficient hunter gatherer who needs to do everything to I can specialize and trade with other people who were get a ████ that I'm not good at and I think from a personality P that's the same for me when I took the personality test I know if you guys have heard Big Five the ocean personality test so you've probably heard of like Myers breaks right this in tpj ████ that test is not scientific it was invented by two people with no scientific training whatsoever after Carl yung's theories many of which have been disproven this other test scientifically rigorous it measures your traits across these five things that spell out ocean O is for openness C is for conscientiousness how careful you are e is for extroversion a is for agreeableness and n is for neuroticism so when I look at my scores my openness is off the charts like when
4:16 you guys asked me to come on when bar text me I was like ████ yeah I'm down cuz I love doing this ████ I love meeting people I love trying new things my conscientiousness like I said it's very very low even when I was flying back from Mexico City I missed my first flight cuz I'm a dumbass and I hadn't kept in time what I need to write organization exactly conscientiousness kind of like dotting their eyes and crossing your teth on life exactly like how organized are you always in time are you coordinating other people I'm really not good at that stuff but my co-founder is much more so ease for extroversion I'm more extroverted than my co-founder you know in different contexts different personalities come out but generally I love spending time with people and I love hanging with you guys and then after I go home I'll just be like all right I'm good I'm going to be alone and uh and when I burn out energy I'm like dead it's like don't talk to me I'll be very very cranky um a
5:07 is for agreeableness like how agreeable you are like how nice of a person you are I used to be super disagreeable just like a huge prick over time like basically evened out to average um but there are people like my girlfriend she's way higher than I am on the agreeableness thing but I need that you know some so one of us has got to be like the really nice kind person and the end is for neuroticism you know every single one of these traits usually scientists will say if it's high good things can come out of it if it's low good things can come out of it too like openness you might think it's universally good to be high on that actually no if you're really high maybe you're too open to just changing at the drop of a hat there are people who too down for everything exactly there are people you respect because they are who they are and that's not going to change however the exception is neuroticism studies generally indicate it is always better to be lower in neuroticism and
5:57 anxiety I rank medium am high so thank you science but the way I figured out how to make use of it I'm never going to get myself to a place where I'm just perfectly an even Keel and staple now I like to think of my life as a dynamic equilibrium there are UPS there are downs and when they're UPS that's when I go and try and do things make content think through business strategy meet friends and when it's down that's when I try and not hate out people and be by myself because I'm going through it and you know there helps but uh I've realized it's never going to change I should just lean into when I'm feeling passionate and excited just write it yeah that's cool that's cool man that's a great thorough way of explaining all that never heard of it way it's really cool I think a lot about that's another thing that comes to high neuroticism right analysis and
6:48 anxiety yeah but that that's that's a great trait to have because sometimes I wish I had that neuroticism well cuz like when I catch on an idea my optimism is so high that I'm blind to all of the faults and I feel like everything possible that can go wrong that's just negative thinking okay so I'm like it's it's like being a pastor who's just like believing that you know you have this super and then you just go there and then later you go oh my God that was so risky but I see all of my friends who are investors that are highing neuroticism they're always paranoid they have a moat around there's no way they're going to fail and they often times um get into the best of situations whereas I'm in the opposite
7:39 I'm in I get into the worst of situations and it wasn't it's not till I'm too late where I'm like uhoh consequences you know what I mean like uh so then I'm like I see the neuroticism in in the in the overanalyzing and the extra carefulness and the the fear and I'm like ████ if I had a little bit of that then think I would balance out more to where maybe I wouldn't be so excited to do crazier things yeah at least that's where it balances out if you're a good Problem Solver then it does make up somewhat for not being like you know flexibility makes up for when those disasters happen at least you can tackle them and you're not like you know but then but then when you're in the situation and you're having a heart attack you're like see this is why you got to be safer man what the ████ and how did you if you hit a home run on whatever it is that you're
8:30 going for and those home runs can last a long time man Glory hits different yeah it so like even for like you two I mean you guys have worked together ████ forever forever what do you feel like are the different roles you've taken on cuz I'll share with my co-founder we do co-founder therapy we've had to figure out we were friends but now we're business partners and that is different yeah we were actually talking about last night that we're like dude we're actually complete opposite you're like I don't even ████ like it you know what funny we did take we took the Myers Briggs right and then I'm like a entj or entp and he's a INTP or intj so I'm just the extroverted version he's the introverted version but I mean if that's all you know stupid ass it's been disproved no I mean it's kind
9:20 of still helpful proxy because you still it's a language where you can talk about yourself yeah and we were talking about the compromise that we've made to where it's like yeah he likes routine structure predictability um I love a lot of variance in novelty to the point where yeah it's it it's good cuz we blend the two together where he might maybe create the tracks and then I'll just create the train that goes on the tracks or whatever you know so you need both yeah and I'm I mean I'm really fortunate for the business like partnership because I really don't think that I would be able to stay on track if it wasn't for his discipline to to create a system of hey every Sunday we're going to create a skit and now
10:10 with the parameters now I can go and like go wild but then I also be able to I guess think macro enough where like I'm like hey Bart we should actually do this that's way out off of Left Field but he's like okay let's try it like it's off the off what we projected to do but let's try it let's try it yeah wow I have that same relationship with my co-founder there have been times where I'm like so excited let's go ████ do it so a great example we launched a service that did taxes for creators and I so gung-ho let's go and do it it's going to be great everyone needs help on this and you know this is a case where I think I would have benefited more from where my co-founder thinks where he's like you need to Bel the systems and scale before you can just launch something we actually had more demand than we could Supply so we had people being like hey I want to sign up it's not ready or I'm signing up like they're
11:00 not responding cuz they were just too many and I've noticed that my co-founder sometimes there'll be times where I'm like we need to move faster we got to go do this and he's like well let's take a little bit longer but it changes sometimes he's the one pushing and I'm the one that's scares sometimes it's the other way I will say though I'm also fascinated because you guys have worked together so long I once a discussion with my co-founder and it's like hey man like we're still best friends right he like we've argued with each other so much at this point and he was like you know I'm not sure we're friends what I was like I felt really hurt but then what does he mean by that though he said his lover he we do coiner therapy we we've slept in the same bed before now come on we had a you know barrier of pillows in between us but do it again but the pillows had
11:50 dents in them the therapist's like take the pillows out next time what you mean by that you know M started you sleep in the same bed it's chill it's cool and he said well you know my sister I don't know if she's my friend but she's my sister I was like oh he's like you're my co-founder mhm there's a very deep and special relationship there where like in a way with friends like presumably of you're friends you hang out with each other cuz you generally always get along and you like each other you're not necessarily I was going to have that in a Business Partnership maybe not that I would know in a marriage you might not always like them but in marriage you love them and I was like oh that makes sense we might not be friends in the same way we were when we met we're just ████ around but we're tied together
12:42 and we respect each other and there's a very deep bond there that keeps us going that's sick and then at what point was he like but we we already doing that that didn't change the physical stuff is of course it's it's it's evolved Beyond friendship to it's like my wife says like you know when I hang when I see you guys hang out it's like at this point it's not like um it's just visiting relatives like there's like a deeper like you guys aren't going to split like there's why would you or for any reason like there's things Beyond business there's history there's Rapport there's loyalty it's one of those things where hey B uh I have a body in my living room I'll over what's the biggest fight you
13:32 guys have had I don't know man I don't think we've ever had a fight that was personal I kind of believe it though I remember we fought though a lot on what we thought was better for the business yeah totally same with yeah and it's never been like but they're still they're still not crazy though no we we raise our voices but it's not crazy and um I think it's because we never really made it about us and our ego yeah maybe the ego like spilled onto like creative differences cuz you think your idea might be better but it was never personal attacks and jealousy insecurity like I see other friendships break down from like you ████ have all the lime light and I don't like I think we both are more like oh you win I win I win you win you know you get these
14:22 people now I'm going to benefit from that you might make more right now I'm going to benefit like so we always had that mentality to where I see so many other groups where they're arguing over who has more camera time and I'm like you're fighting so much internally that there's actually enemies outside that's taking over and com out beating you cuz you guys are so stupid in fighting and I I'm glad we never had that I love that yeah even when we uh got booked for um In Living Color when they're bringing it back this was like a while ago and at that time uh traditional TV didn't really understand the social media space so they're like uh in the contract it was like guaranteed I think like 13 episodes or something it was like 30 G's per episode was a ████ ton for someone at our time where like per person and they were going to hire both of us yeah for for for a time we're like I think we're our YouTube channel is only making like six seven Grand a month and we're paying us
15:14 and like five other people so 30 GS for 13 episodes seemed like a crazy amount but they wanted to shut down the YouTube channel and when we brainstormed and they wanted both of us when we brainstormed we even brainstormed what if one of us just stayed on the YouTube channel and the other one does a TV show so kind of maximize both but the whole pot goes back to the same pot M so like from the get-go has always been about the team and it's never been like oh who's going to be the ████ Superstar or whatever and we ended up being that the contract said like it's you can't um we can't do that at all so we didn't but like when in our brainstorm process it's always been team or almost like Family Matters first and then how do we collectively build this pot and then we'll figure out how we distribute the pot later but the pot is like unified I love that I I trust will with everything and it's the same like you know even
16:04 when we were texting I was like hey actually my co-founder would be really great to bring on because we're not just coers we are co-ceos we are completely equal in everything and so when we decide things it has to be because we both agree or and this is something he's way better at than I am you can also disagree and commit there are times where you might not we're good at you we disagree and commit that we we might be like I don't think so but if you believe in this ████ going 100% not dragging their feet or anything still yeah like Will's really good at that for me I actually struggle with that a lot because there's so much I worked through in my head where it's like hey like you said we're going to do this and we're doing it and it didn't work I told you yeah and that is the worst mentality having a team POV because we don't know what's going to work or not and it's crazy for me sometimes will would be like you know go
16:56 for something I don't know it's going to work and I do it and it wouldn't work and I would expect him to blame me and he wouldn't he would genuinely be like it's okay we learned and it was such a change I think growing up I always got blamed as stuff went wrong that I started to hate to make decisions of my own because I'd be like if it doesn't go well Will's going to blame me he never would and that's why it's been a huge push for me to get better to your point you mentioned like when you hang out with each other it's like hang out with relatives you I thought about this will my co he is in fact my longest lasting relationship I've dat like five women in the time that I have been with will it is always a test right it's like meet the family yeah I will introduce them to will before like introduce him to my family and that's even like a bigger deal for me it's like does will approve because sometimes he doesn't and it's and he's he's right cuz he knows me so
17:47 well and he has that outside perspective and he's jealous take him away from me I think hearing you say that you guys go to uh co-founder is the sickest thing I didn't even know I didn't even know anyone was offering that yo it is literally basically coup's therapy but you know there's no sex cuz we're both straight guys we're not interested each other that what do you mean things can change C therapists who I swear to God were like you know I could charge double the rates if I charge startup companies instead of couple smart it was all relationship no all relationship a medium for communication the reason why I got interested in this I remember reading you can look it up there's this New York Times article about the founders of Rap
18:37 Genius it's now just called genius right they do like the lyrics and it talked about like that company fell apart partly because of the co-founders most companies actually fail because of co-founders and it talked about how they started a co-founder therapy and look I just remember reading be like oh that's a cool concept because you think about it it's very intimate people think you do therapy with someone if ████ is going wrong and yeah sometimes but often it's too late the best time to do therapy is when things are doing well and it can be an expression of saying here's how much I care about a relationship that I want to go do this and invest time that I could be like playing video games and watching Netflix I'm going to instead talk about my feelings with you even when I'm mad at you and so we started this very early before we had fights and like yeah we had fight that's crazy to
19:27 do that's good buy but it's it's like a rule like we even even right now we had a disagreement because will did an amazing job at the Mexican city Retreat and I did not do a good job this is on me because I was going through my own issues and I know there's going to be feedback for me but we're going to talk about it you know that's something I have faith in should we all go to therapy you guys ████ no we're going to go to liard jiujitsu and choke each other out 5 person therapy that's therapy well you know there's a joke right men do podcasts instead of going to therapy the men do anything instead this is the most we've ever heard men talk though in this generation just guys just ████ let I don't like it I think they should zip it up dude just keep it quiet fight it out be St zip it up zip it up zip it
20:19 [Music] out [Music]
// end of tape