0:05 Welcome back to another episode of the Careful Boys. Got one question. One question only. Is a college degree a scam? >> Oh, >> it depends what college and what major. >> University of Arizona online. No, I'm just kidding. How do you guys feel generically or where or where are you going with that? >> Most degrees, yes. >> But generically, I feel like if it's being advertised to you, it's a scam. >> Yep. >> Wow. >> Cuz think about it, right? How many people that has a arts major actually work in the field and make what they thought they [snorts] would make equivalent to what they paid? So like the way I see it is like if you're going to pay 40k a year or even 20k a year for university by the end of your four years you would hope that the job that you get pays off that debt reasonably. So, like
0:56 I get it if you're in the medical field or something like that, it's you're you're going to get like a six-f figure job, right? But if you're getting these jobs that really the cap is like 30 to 40k, how's that even right? Like it doesn't make sense. >> And that's assuming the job even exists >> being that's like a I I think it's a scam because I don't think tuition should I think it should be reflected in the potential earnings you can make. >> Yeah. I don't think it's fair that someone in STEM fields is going to pay the same amount as someone in in history or something. Y and we're excluding immediately also the if it requires a certain certification like accounting or whatever obviously you need to get that college degree but we're talking about people that go like general ed like if you go like humanities or whatever is it worth it right? >> Yeah. Or just or even just >> if you want to be a doctor there's no
1:46 other way you have to go to ████ you know >> even the system in general right so when you speak generically nowadays it would be assumed that you're going to a four-year undergrad right after high school. So on average, you're you're 18 years old. By the time you get out, you're 22 years old and now you have debt. So you're starting your life with mad debt, >> but you got a piece of credibility now. And and the only thing we're actually comparing to in prior generations, right, is like people would, let's say, pre-ol when there was actually like a giant working force. You would go into some sort of, I don't know, like industrialized job or mechanical engineer, whatever the freak. But you would maybe start work at 18. And this is during like the the American dream era right now. We're just totally indoctrinated into a system where we are paying like oftent times six figures even in an underground undergrad situation. >> Yeah. Yeah. If you go to USC,
2:36 >> it's like 80 100k every year. >> And the nerve of them to like offer Russian literature is a major. Like it's crazy. It's crazy. Like you're going to be 100K in debt. Good luck, bro. But at that point, I think it's more like if you're a rich person that just wants to study and contribute to that field. You know how like working class working class people like they go to college to elevate to get to the next stage, right? Yeah. >> But if you're rich [snorts] already, you go to university to just study a field that you're passionate about and you contribute to it. You become a researcher, you become an academic. But then I'm like, there's two different goals going on, I think. Because like when you're balling and you don't have to worry about money, you can study philosophy all day. And it's like, who cares? You went to
3:27 ████ Yale, Harvard, whatever for philosophy and you're like doing groundbreaking ████ but it doesn't make sense for the general public. And I think that's where it's a scam because like we're told, oh, on average, you know, if you have a college degree, you'll get paid better, you'll get hired, all that stuff. But I don't think that's true because during the recession of 2008 when we graduated around 2009 firsthand we knew what that felt like. A college degree didn't mean ████ Nobody got a job. So, and then we all had s█████ degrees, too. We didn't have like all the degrees we had, you had to have at least a master's or above to have a legit job. Like psychology, like you can't get anything with a bachelor's in psychology. >> What did you do? Psycho bio or whatever. >> There's nothing for what? What did you get? >> Film and media studies. Went straight to YouTube. >> You're working in entertainment. But if
4:18 you think about it, right, you didn't need that degree to do what you do now. >> I needed to go to college though to learn all the dance. >> I think the I think that's where the value really is. >> Networking. >> Yeah. >> I think what helped me out in college is them forcing me to read stuff I would have never have read. >> For real. Making you do the work. >> And I think that made me a little bit smarter. Yeah. even though I don't use it, but I think in this day and age because you can like kind of allocart your education. I think it's way better to do that because now it's like like you go okay you pick this major and there's ████ I don't know 20 40 classes that are just you have to take but what if you don't half of them you don't even need versus these days like if you want to do this you can almost take and pick and choose every single thing you want to do either via online course mentorship or do whatever and
5:09 have everything be 100% productive whereas even in college like we knew some of Oh, that would be an easy elective. And you just check that box, you know? So, half the class I didn't even need. But in this day and age, >> you're talking about the G's, right? Or the prerex >> or even like upper division stuff, you're just like you're trying to skate through. I'm not trying to take the hardest classes. I'm like, "Oh, cool. This teach this professor is easy and that one." So you're even still trying to gamify the system even though you know it's good for you versus now like you can pick and choose all the classes who you want to learn from on YouTube or master class or whatever and I feel like you could get a way better education yourself but that's where the discipline part comes in and it's hard to have that when like 19 years old. It's also hard to believe that some college courses are even relevant. Like say like obviously like if you're going to be a surgeon or something, they that's essential
5:59 knowledge you have to know and you have to take. But if you're in marketing, if that marketing book was written earlier that year, it's expired. >> Yep. >> And if that person that's teaching you can't show any like real achievement of their own where they applied what they're telling you to do, how are they even helping you out? Like there's just certain things I don't understand about that. I'm like >> that's the big one, dude. >> Yeah. Or a business teacher having never had a business there of their own. Like I just don't get where that equates. I can understand. Yeah. >> Theory. They're just teaching theory. Like the classes I got the most out of was when you would do the theory in class, right? And then you actually did the practical like cuz then it the practical side forced you to learn >> and it forced you to apply what you're actually learning. And it was like even if you tried to be like have for me I had always had a bad attitude. I was like I don't want to do this ████ But when I would do the lab you would do it and you'd be like that was actually kind of cool I did that. Even though you didn't want to do it and you're like this is ████ lame topic. I don't want
6:50 to study this, but it kind of forced it on you and it was like, oh, okay, I took something out of this. >> But even then, to his point though, the way that like every like I was a film major, same thing. The theory classes, they're they're cool. They give you context and they they sure they put you in a critical thinking mode of certain things that maybe you wouldn't have thought of before in your field. And then the practical stuff, being actual in like production classes and like using a camera, using editing software, I was like, this is helpful for what what I want to do. But then within like two years I went from like DVs that you had to freaking you know upload and turn into a digital file you would render for like 3 days in order to figure out a project. Like the second the technology changed immediately everything was dinosaur and like now I had to relearn something outside of a classroom and I had to learn it on my own anyway. So it's just like the practicality of and
7:40 then at the same time I'm I already chose to be a film major. what am I doing still in like calculus and failing that? What what is that? >> But that's where the execution like kind of fails. And I think that's a lot of argument for people going to college is like the execution of how they teach is always variable to the professor and who's running and who's overseeing them. So it's like yeah in theory it should be a really rewarding experience for you to go through college but a lot of the times you end up just being like this is a filler class. I'm driving out here for ████ I'm spending ████ threek a semester just to sit in his class and just reading off slideshows. Like I'm not getting anything from this. >> So I'm gonna cheat. >> I don't think um for the system they're not quick enough to adjust cuz like like you said like if tech or any of that stuff is obsolete. They have a whole program already based on that. Like the
8:30 lesson plan everything is based on that. So let's say like AI is like the new thing right? Some universities are quick. Like I I'd assume that Stanford and Caltech is like not gonna be late on that tech game, but I can see like Cal State Pomona or Long Beach maybe. >> And then even if and even if they adapt really quick, it's going to cost them so much money. So where do they get it? They got to bump up the tuition, >> right? And then so this is what I'm seeing though because like I I employ a lot of kids that are in college right now and then I'm looking at some of the stuff that they're studying and I'm like dude AI is going to ████ you up so hard and you're still paying for this ████ but they also don't get prepped. So like in media film marketing all of these things they move so goddang quickly that
9:20 like the stuff that they're learning is like 2015 or whatever, right? And then the same ████ with like prepping them for the world. Um like if they're trying to be a a graphic designer or whatever, they ain't got like they don't have the the amount of work you need cuz like in film and like media, you need so much volume to compete. I think the school system works way too ████ slow. like it's up to you to put in those hours, but like I don't think they have a realistic understanding of if you want to work in an industry, you got to do 20 times that. Like, and they don't even they barely have their portfolio ready. So, I was like that's another thing too where I think the bare minimum of what you need to pass is not realistic to the real world. But I that's where I'm like
10:11 you guys are going to get ████ up, especially the media and arts like department. So for you guys, if you guys had kids, would you uh like make them go to college or make it up to their choice or you try to persuade them not to go to college? >> I want them to go to college cuz I understand the role college plays in society. I think we just need as many structures as we can to keep people in kind of like almost in line. It sounds a little conspiracy theory, but like I think whatever is good for um for society there there is an actual like advantage to that. >> Even if you go to college for a ████ major, you're at least you're not out on the street doing random ████ >> I'm sure. I'm sure people love that. But >> institution to keep people and society kind of like on the same page. >> No, I think like whatever you go to college for, I think that's valuable time where you get to formulate what you really want to do with your life, whether you're doing that right now. It's just like if you're taking all GES,
11:01 that helps you figure out where you want to eventually go. And a lot of people don't know what that is in their early 20s or whatever or like even in their late teens. So, I don't blame them. But I I just think that like the the debt you're left with Yeah. >> is disproportionate to what you took on. Like it doesn't to me I don't think it's fair that you know like people who are going to be in STEM fields which obviously have an endless demand >> and if you're in like science and tech and everything you're always going to have a job somewhere. You're always going to have a place to apply that knowledge. >> But then the college absolutely knows that you can't do ████ with what they're teaching you >> on other parts of it. So I don't think the system is a scam. I think there's a scam within the system. Yeah. And the greater society allows it to happen because it's better than not having it. >> They might as well put those GES into high school so that everyone has to learn it for free >> and then when you go to college, you're
11:51 paying for what you want to learn. It's >> the debt part. That's just insane. I think every country looks at us and goes, "Why do you keep doing this to yourself?" Because when I started taking GES in college, I was like, why didn't weren't we learning this in like high school kind of like some of these concepts of like like basic philosophy, basic humanities, whatever the ████ right? Like none of those topics were ever covered >> and then you kind of go in like blank and you're like, well, this is kind of important for like a young adult to kind of understand, I think. But that's where I see that like I think even high school in general like I I feel like when I take a step back and I look at government and like country, >> most of it's leaning towards just keeping people off the streets and less of it at the quality of the education. They don't give a ████ as much about that as they do that you're just not somewhere else. >> Less chaos, >> the structure, the structure is so
12:42 important. >> It's more just like keeping you on a track for as long as possible. And I think like again when you're off that track like if I'm my kids going to go go go to college or not. Uh if they go to college I'm not going to pay for some ████ ass major for sure I'm not going to do that you know unless but then also at the same time how will I know at that time what's ████ and what's not. Like am I going to be the one that knows better? Well, it used to be a place where >> if you're like a regular innocent kid, you did four years of high school, that that was supposed to be like your transition into adulthood. Yeah. >> If you weren't going to be like laboring, >> you know, like cuz you had two routes. You become an office worker or you became like, >> you know, blue collar, right? So then after high school, some people went to trade school, some people became an apprentice, became a plumber or whatever. Or they went to university and
13:34 started, you know, going that route. So I think like we're prolonging this childhood ████ though cuz like people that go to university, they're supposed to grow up there and then be ready to work. >> But I don't think that's really happening. >> Yeah. >> But then the it's sad because the choices you're going to make right out of college, right? Let's say that you got your degree and everything. You're ready to work. You're not ready to make decisions based on what you really should do or want to do because you have to do what you're forced to do because you have no money and a ton of debt. >> So, you're really just going to do the same ████ anyway. You're just going to do the first thing that you can. It's not always going to be the best choice. >> It's almost better if out of high school, you just get a job and work for four years. >> That's what >> like an apprenticeship or something. >> Yeah. And then the person you're going to be by the time you're 21 or 22 will be so much more seasoned and have so
14:24 much more like belief behind your decisions versus like this very naive person that comes out of college thinking they're smart but they really don't really know anything yet. >> A lot of people right out of college do if they never had a job before they think they deserve more but they ████ have the they have the worst work ethics. They It's just so weird. They do very little and then they think they should be paid like a million dollars where everybody that's been through the workforce as teenagers, they're so much more prepared for a career. >> Yeah. >> Like they know how to operate and I it's just I that's the biggest scam I think is like college does not prep people for the real world >> and the scam of like whatever society did to stigmatize trade workers and bluecollar against the high affluent society of college grads. Whatever
15:15 created that stereotype was where it ████ up. Yep. >> Because I think discouraging people from doing trades and making them feel like, oh, you're a lower class person because of that ruined the economy to in my opinion. >> I think that was Asian parenting. [laughter] >> Trades is the most practical thing. >> Asian parenting played a big role in I also feel like those trades are hard jobs. So a lot of parents are like, you don't want to do the hard labor. You want to do something where you use your brain and you don't have to like be going Yeah. You don't want to be going under crawl spaces all day like doing dirty work. >> A plumber homie than a ████ Greek philosopher homie. That can't help me in my life at >> But Asian Asian parents didn't push us into philosophy. They pushed us into like freaking surgeons. >> Like that's correct. But I think like when I don't know which what's the stereotype like which culture pushes their kids to do the useless majors. I
16:07 think we need that data and find them, target them and be like, "Stop doing that." >> What do you think? What What do you think the data would say? >> Probably white. [laughter] >> You could be whatever you want. >> Hey, but there's a hell of white tradies, too. So, [laughter]
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