0:00 [Music] Welcome back to another episode of Careful Boys. Today we got lyrics born with us. Hey, >> Anthony had a really good question to ask you actually. >> Oh. Um, so you had mentioned previously that like for example when you know some of your people in your camp or homies were getting signed and stuff you would run into these situations where people would be like you're really hard to market and then you would eventually learn that you know what that kind of really meant was also like hey you're Asian. On the other side of that same topic, did you ever run into um just whether it's being in your own community or part of that culture where people were giving you any friction for being Asian, doing this type of music, repping this type of culture, anything like that? >> Not really. >> Damn. So, the swag was just so
0:50 authentic, nobody gave a >> Well, well, okay. Okay. So, I This is how I I would answer that question. Um, coming from where I come from, the Bay Area, it was not unusual to see Asians doing what I did. So, all I had to do was look around and, okay, you've got Invisible Scratch Pickles over here as, you know, like they were bigger. They were big before I even started rapping, you know what I mean? um uh like Cubert and Apollo and and Shortcut and those guys and um then Dan was Dan the Automator was producing records before any of us, you
1:40 know, and because the Bay Area is so diver even more so back then, you know, was so diverse, I didn't think I was doing anything that unusual, you know, It wasn't until I started touring that I was like, "Oh, I might be the only Asian person in this town on stage right now and I'm the only guy in this city." You know, but people were coming out. They were buying the tickets. They were there because they obviously had heard the music and bought the music, you know. Um, I think early on I think I I faced a little bit of sort of I don't know inroup
2:31 um maybe some outside of the Bay Area. I think maybe I felt some of that from Asian sometimes because, you know, I got curly hair. I didn't quite fit the stereotype. you know, it wasn't quite how we're used to seeing ourselves, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. it and it it was an unconventional profession for for a lot of Asians to see, you know, that changed over time, you know, that changed over time because we started to accept I feel like my observation is our self-concept of what it means to be particularly an Asian male, you know, I think got got broader, got wider, you know, like I
3:21 think I think A lot of times we wouldn't even see biracial Asians as Asian, you know, or we wouldn't see we just didn't think of ourselves that way. And I think the way that the world has changed is that we're we're just more we're inclusive as a community. I think of uh like our own self definition has broadened and expanded. >> That's true. I I have a similar um kind of experience to you cuz like me and Bart growing up in California um the coolest kids in some of the schools were like it wasn't like the stereotype of like oh you're the nerd or whatever, right? And then when we started traveling and doing shows and a lot of the times the Asian culture clubs would hire us to speak at their whatever
4:11 event and mo and the gripe was always the same thing. It was like yeah man they think we're like this and nerdy and I'm like cuz you are look at the way you dress and then >> double down. >> But then I but I didn't grow up around that. >> They're not wrong. >> Yeah. But I >> you're absolutely right. But then, but then I was like, "Of course, you know, you do look like you can't you don't have no style." Like, "What the f███?" Like, but then in LA are like, "You don't have that same stereotype." Like, and I'm like, "We're why why are they thinking this way?" And I realized we're the minority. >> That's right. >> Like, we're like most Asians are upper middle class. They're like good students and they that's the stereotype, right? And then when I was like growing up and I'm like, who are where are these Asians? like that's not my friends.
5:01 That's not >> You're defining from the nationwide norm. >> Yeah. And then when I saw that, I was like, "Oh, we're the Oh, we're the weirdos." >> But that's true. In your own circle, that was normal. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But even in LA, I think it's the Asian diversity is so big >> that you don't there's so many to choose from. There's so many different styles, even different kinds of Asian like That's right. >> Yeah. There's like hundreds of thousands of Japanese by themselves and then Chinese and then like Koreans and like there's enough for it to be like its own thing by itself. >> Yeah. >> Like you could operate as a non-English-speaking Chinese, not even having citizenship, live in your own community, like everything's cash. You could go to your the the markets, everything. It's like there's there's none of that outside of California
5:51 really. Maybe New York. That's why like I thought it really spoke to me when I was watching Mean Girls and you know in the beginning of Mean Girls she's going through the whole school talking about all the clicks >> and she goes the Asians the cool Asians >> and that like hit me hard because I'm like that's what I grew up with. I didn't it like most movies only have nerd Asians >> but the fact that they didn't even hang out I was like that's us. >> Yeah. >> Can we talk about this too? Like like this this part I really ████ hate too, right? Like when we talk about what are we talking about? Are we when we talk about Asians? Are we talking about Chinese? And what does that even mean? Are we talking about Taiwanese? Are we talking about >> 100%. >> Then you know there's Mongol like in the Bay Area also we have Mongolians. We have Tibetans. >> He said that's all the same.
6:41 >> That's what thousand% bro. >> Yeah. >> He calls them ching chongs. All of them. No, you're right though cuz they'll they'll talk about this like you know you know Asians in America and I'm like no but most of the people that are saying that it's actually Chinese or Korean because they're in media. So when they talk about the Asian community, most of it is like, "Oh, wait, no, you're from NorCal, like I don't know, like Mountain View or whatever. You grew up a certain way, and you're trying to talk for the rest of us." >> And I'm like, "But that's not even we don't even connect with this guy." >> I guess I guess the particular of of my question is not so much like, >> you know, cuz we've we've been part of like the hip-hop dance culture where the friction didn't necessarily come from fellow Asians. If anything, it was more gatekeepers of hip-hop. >> Yeah. Okay.
7:31 >> Um, >> what skin and color is that? You think? >> Mainly the black community. >> I knew it. Okay. Keep going. >> Yeah. >> But in in honest conversation, you know, cuz like and it's only it's only highlighted if you're if you find success too, to be completely honest, right? If you're underground or if you're just trying to like enjoy your craft or become whatever, it's like nobody gives a ████ about it. Nobody trying tries to punch down, right? But then second you maybe like get some sort of you know TV spot or you get some sort of like recognition for >> then you get an email from Tyrone >> then yeah then then you get you know this this conversation of whether or not you're like appropriating culture and and the thing is as an Asianamean or American in general. It's like you're you're talk you grow up in the culture. So you just do what you you know what's around you. You listen to the music that's on the radio station that everybody else around you listens to. So
8:21 you just think you're doing what's American. >> But that sounds like a post 19 like 2019 because if you went to any hip-hop event or whatever, it was it wasn't like that. It was like >> no everyone's battle rapping doesn't matter what race you are, everyone's break dance like everything was like hip-hop was like everybody joined, everybody make music, right? But after co I think everything became like >> scrutinized for sure. It was every community. Like there were Asian kids going, "This is my culture. Don't make it your ████ costume. >> Don't make it your project." >> Right. And then it's like we never had that >> precoid. >> Yeah. >> It was a different It was a different scene. >> You feel like that was different. >> You know, appropriation is a thing, man. you know, and and I think that
9:11 frankly I understand, you know, if if people don't like or have a problem with um seeing folks who are traditionally outside the culture um making a living or or actually living within something that another culture has created. I get it. I we should feel that way you know we should feel like protective of what we've created you know we should feel like we have uh ownership over that you know so like yeah I mean I get comments too like you know people say things like um you know this is c maybe they'll see me not that often really but it does happen you know
10:02 I see comments like oh this is cultural appropriation and I'm like bro you have every right. I mean, I don't need to tell you. You have every right to feel that way. You feel however you want to feel, you know? I mean, because I understand on a certain level, I understand how many ramen restaurants you've been into. you you know where the guy doesn't look Japanese to me you know you know and Chad is going to sit there and school you on the history of ramen you know and then charge you $100 a bowl you know or even with with dinner and place like you know my cooking show when I was making sushi you know I I'm not classically trained I learned from my father you know and I would see comments from like like
10:53 a a couple times there were white chefs like that's not how you make the rice and and and ultimately and I'm like ████ I'm Japanese. I cannot make this wrong. Do do you know what I mean? >> I can't there's no way I could I don't care how you learned how to do it. There's no wrong way for me to make rice. I am Japanese, you know. And so I understand I understand when people say that or they feel that way. You should feel that way. You should feel protective of what you're doing. You know, and then it's up to you to decide if you feel like I belong or not. You know what I mean? But that doesn't
11:44 necessarily change the way that I feel about what my life's purpose is. You >> That's cool. Yeah. >> Do you understand? >> Like you you have your feelings. I have my feelings. You have your opinions. I have my opinions. >> Very mature. >> I'm not going to I'm not going to tell anybody how to feel. >> You know, that's you feel how you feel, bro. You know, it's just I get it. You know, and I understand on those lines that we have to be protected, but I would like to think that I am moving the culture forward. You know what I mean? like I would like to think. And if that's not acceptable to some folks, I understand. That's okay. I'm okay with that. I'm still mad at Wu Tang Clan using all that Chinese code. >> He brings it up every day. Pisses me off. >> I honestly that's one of the most articulate, mature ways to express something that is a modern conversation. It is, >> you know, because like that is a conversation. And I think if I were to
12:36 be honest, sometimes the best way to handle it is to cuz it's always an online conversation for the most part. >> Sometimes the best way to respond to it is to not at all >> so that it hopefully slowly dissipates because at the end of the day like the truth is like you said like this is I understand it's just this is what we do. I'm not going to change my life because a couple comment warriors think and feel something that they might be totally right for feeling. I just think I might also feel the way I feel about what I like to do type stuff. But it's also sometimes you need the feeling of credibility coming from somebody who's maybe been a part of the culture that has moved it forward for like >> decades in a sense, you know, to be like, oh yeah, like >> this is this is how we grew up and who we grew up around in the in the culture and the music. It's like to see that today, you know, and and how somebody
13:26 feels about it today is is a really good kind of validation for like feeling okay about doing it as well when you're getting scrutinized online. >> Yeah. >> I I I would I will add this though. I will add this. I do have a problem. If you if you have lived in a certain lane culturally that is not historically yours and you have made a living in that lane, I do believe you have a financial responsibility to empower those outside who who you have derived your cultural inspiration. operation or you're living from, I do believe you do have a responsibility to
14:16 empower those folks also to excel. So like I have a problem when I see chefs who have made a living doing, you know, creating food. Let just let's just there's not a lot of them out there, but let's just say you're a chef and you are not um Japanese and you have made and you're part of the mainstream and you have made a living creating Japanese food and d if you're not bringing Japanese chefs up to help follow in your footsteps, you know, and help them by creating a path for them. I have a pro I do have a problem with that, you know, because that ultimately if that's how
15:07 you would pay homage >> in in today's society. I think it's not enough anymore to say but I'm I'm true to the values >> and I'm keeping it real, you know, my food is good, you know, that's not enough for me, you know, and I feel the same way. Like I understand, bro. Like I look at some of these music festivals that have made their entire living off of, you know, black music or, you know, foreign music. And then you go and you you go and you look and you settle or you look at their whole administration. There's not a single person that looks like what they are selling. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? So I have a problem with that. I do have a problem with that. And I think if if we
15:57 really want to have a proper discussion if someone is providing you with a living, then you need to provide them with a living. >> Pay it back to the game. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I think that that's that's only karmically correct. You know, and I think that's a lot of times where people butt heads is that part. You know, there's an economic component to this conversation that we can't ignore. You know what I'm saying? You have to do more than just respect the art form than then create the art respectfully. I think you have to create opportunities in the same way that opportunities were created for you. You know what I mean? So, that's the part two to that discussion. And I and if people don't do that, I
16:47 understand. You have every right to be upset in my opinion. You know what I mean? >> So, I don't know. >> Is there a difference though between like let's say there's like a upand cominging like uh black artist that you can put on, you have the power or the opportunity to like help propel that dude or just some other random person that's not even in music trying to tell you that you can't do it. >> What was the second part to like the difference between like helping a fellow musician or just another person who's just blat >> not even a musician, but they're trying to tell you that like you're appropriating. >> Well, first of all, I think everybody's opinion is valid. First of all, I really do. >> Even if they're stupid. >> I'm the complete opposite. I think everyone's thoughts suck. >> I may not agree. >> Yeah, that's good. >> I may not agree.
17:37 >> They're still allowed to voice Yeah. Yeah, but I I do I feel like everybody's opinion is valid. You feel how you feel for the reasons that you have, you know? I mean, I didn't live your life, you know? I >> Our experiences shape our opinions. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and no two people have the same experience, you know what I mean? So, I can't You feel how you feel. I mean, I'm not if if I'm sitting here like, "Oh, no. You're wrong for feeling that way." I mean, it's like >> you can't really even change your mind. So, >> you know, I mean, you're kind you're gaslighting people at that point. You know what I'm saying? It's like >> good strategy. >> You know, >> it reminds me of like remember when Chuck Norris was like under Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee like kind of in a way co-signed him. >> It'd be like a random Chinese guy today telling him he can't be doing it. >> Yeah, cuz he's a guo. Why you going to let a gu do this one? >> It's like if I still see a difference in
18:28 value between who's co-signing you? Like, let me ask you this, cuz cuz this came up in in in sort of I'll I'll call it a informal group chat among some of my friends. >> Did Chuck Norris put on any Asians the way that Bruce Lee put on Chuck Norris? >> Damn. >> That you're aware. >> He was just beating him up in the movies. >> I don't know if Chuck Norris put anyone on I don't know of anything he did. >> He put himself on Walker, Texas. >> Did he have an obligation to do so? in your opinion, you know, let me ask you that. >> I never thought of it that way, but now I'm starting to say, "Yeah, >> so you can kind of sway me on this." >> And and it and it doesn't mean that Chuck wasn't good at what he did. >> It doesn't mean that Chuck and I don't even know the answer. Well, I don't know his business, you know, but
19:19 >> it doesn't mean that he wasn't true to the art. >> It doesn't mean he didn't follow all the principles, you know. >> Yeah. But did he put anybody on the way that Bruce put him on? >> You know, but maybe that's why his legacy isn't as big as like a Bruce. >> Pretty big in a different way though. >> No, but Bruce Bruce was actually a a a rebel because he wasn't like >> Yeah, they were only Chinese. He got his ass beat for teaching his thing was about let's get everybody into the sport, right? >> Yeah. So, >> which he did. >> Yeah. So Bruce wasn't really so much let's get let's put Asians on the spot, Asian-Americans on the spot. It was more let's make martial arts. Let's show this to the world. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if we need a Guo to help translate that. >> Exactly. He was more like that. So then if Chuck
20:10 >> would he be would I think the right thing for him to do is get more martial artists out there. Not an Asian-American. >> I feel I feel like Chuck doing it or not doing it or I guess not putting people on. I don't know if he now I don't know if he did or not. >> Yeah, >> don't come after us. >> He took the ladder cuz he might have >> just conceptually. But like let's say let's say if we can't recognize anybody that he may have put on, it doesn't make me disrespect him for it. >> If anything, it makes me just respect Bruce more for like choosing to do that. >> That's true. >> Cuz he's like, he's got kicks. Let's put them on. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. >> But do we have the right to say to Chuck, who did you put on? >> Nope. cuz I'm Japanese and I was the villain in all of Bruce Lee movies. >> Every single time it's a bad guy. >> But do we have the right to say that? >> No. To Chuck.
21:00 >> Nope. >> No. >> I think if I was a student of Bruce, I might think about it. >> Now, >> but I don't think I own martial arts. That's the thing where like some people they believe that they own a craft that they're not a participant in because it's a culture thing. >> That's the part that gets me. This is something as far as we know >> was created by Asians. >> Yeah. >> Like martial arts to Asians is like black black music to black people. >> Yeah. >> That's our thing. >> Yeah. >> So this is something that that Okay. So one argument would be this is something that we created. >> Yeah. >> Chuck, we put you on the ████ did you do >> you know for us? >> That's a whole video. But even thinking about as Chuck Norris like being put on by Bruce Lee, like that's a concept I've never even thought about. Me neither.
21:51 And I've seen and I've seen Way of the Dragon every day since I was like seven years old >> cuz he even put Jim Kelly in >> and Kareem Abdul Jabar. >> Bob Wall was the other white guy he beat up >> and Dan Inosanto for Filipinos. >> Paul Wall. Bob Wall. >> He was the other white guy he would beat up. Remember? >> I think his name was Bob Wall. >> Benny the Jet. He's the other He's the other Chuck Norris. >> Yeah, he's the other white Chuck Norris. >> Benny the Jet. And I don't have it in for Chuck. I'm just a good example. >> These are analogies. >> Yeah, it's a good conversation. >> That's a really good question. >> Did maybe, you know, he's had his issues the recently, but >> could we say the same thing about Steven Seigal? >> Could we Could we say >> especially him to >> cuz he wears the clothes as casual clothes. >> Yeah. I'm like, bro, you're in a kimono. >> Yeah. And he bows to Asians. >> But you know what though? His Japanese
22:43 is so good. I was ████ surprised. He could speak really good Japanese. >> Is he putting on Japanese people? >> He's beating him up in movies. >> He's hitting them for real. >> He's flipping them around on on demos. >> Could we I mean, the list goes on. Yeah. >> Could we say that about Claude Vanam? Could we say that about >> Wesley Snipes? I just think that Asian culture specifically is very like when people like it's like, you know, when a foreigner goes to Asia and they like speak any type of Asian, everybody's like, "Wow." Pull out their phones, record, >> just more welcoming. >> We're just happy that you're a part of it. >> Yeah, we're down. >> You know, like we're just happy you like martial arts and ████ you know? >> That's how I feel. >> But like that's just a part of our >> generic culture. I remember how you were saying that appropriation almost hurt uh Asian-American markets in the way that people won't buy souvenirs the way they
23:33 used to at Little Tokyo. >> People are so afraid of cultural appropriation that like all those gift shops in Chinatown and Little Tokyo or whatever, they're suffering because white people don't want to buy the kimonos and the hats and all those things that they're like, "Oh, I'm going to Chinatown. I'm getting this little bracelet or whatever." They're like, "Oh, I don't want to get it cuz I don't want to seem like I'm appropriating here." But it's like now the Asians are actually suffering that have those gift shops cuz they can't ████ sell the ████ >> That's crazy. >> They got to sell the other Asians. >> Or what's the Filipino doll with a dick pops up and ████ You're like, >> "We used to sell tons of these. >> I got a garage full of those." >> The ████ happened?
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