0:00 So, I watched this video, a Jubilee video that that Bart had shared about the manosphere, and there's guy who's an author. Uh he wrote the art of subtly not giving a ████ Is that what it was? >> The subtle art of not >> art of not giving a ████ So, he um I agreed with a lot of this guy's point of view, except for one thing, and and that's how much he's downplaying that body count matters. Like his stance on body count is it just is not a good metric to determine how suitable like a partner might be for you. >> I yeah, I saw that part. >> And that was the one thing that I'm just like, I can't I'm like >> You think he's being mayor'd a little bit? >> I think he's being mayor'd. I think he's >> He was because I think the the actual point or when they were arguing it was like this guy was claiming that um it was
0:50 it was chauvinistic or like damaging to women to judge them based on how many partners they've had, right? And then the guy that was arguing it was like, dude, it's just not a sign of self-respect. Like if you're willing to just ████ anybody, like that's not good. And then so because And then I guess what the guy was trying to say is that's not a um you shouldn't look down on them for doing that. And he goes, you should though. Like if you're a crack addict or something, like you should look down upon that. And then he goes, well, it doesn't take away like you shouldn't you shouldn't you know, like Basically, I think one was saying the the author guy was saying like you're not wrong for doing that. And then the other guy was like, we should condemn it though because it's not a good trait to have. >> too cuz it even matters on Carfax. When you buy a old car, >> [laughter] >> same same date, same mileage, if one is
1:42 two owners, the other one's eight owners, this one's worth less. >> Yeah, that's one of the the types of arguments people had given for that. I still don't think people really nailed it to him, but I know what he's trying to do, and I think he's trying to solve the problem of body count being so like I guess it's like a very >> Like a stigma? >> Yeah, it's a stigma and it's it's very it puts people down and I think it's one of those things where you try to get ahead of it by acting like it's not a thing. >> Yeah, but I think that they were both trying to make a different point. Like he was trying to say like she's not less of a human. Like if an alcoholic has a problem, you know, you just you don't treat them less of a human. And then the other guy was saying, "Yeah, but being an alcoholic shouldn't be praised." Right? Where now women are liberated going, "They're sexually free. They could ████ whoever they want." And then it's like that's not good.
2:32 >> So it might be like he's addressing it from a individualistic level. Like obviously if you meet the girl of your dreams, everything is good, you find out she had a high body count. Maybe that's something it's a personal relationship, something you can look over. But what the other guy was talking about is more of like a collective mindset. Like imagine if all the chicks just all had crazy body counts, that's probably not good for society. >> So Mark Manson is saying that like don't let that stop you from like seeing this person as a good match for you. So then I wanted to talk about not talking about the video anymore, but just like what does this forum believe really matters in terms of like body count and in what like nuances? >> I I think being a sex addict is just a bad trait to have. >> But it's the a sex addict is very extreme. Just body count in general. >> Well, like if you ████ 200 people. >> 200 is extreme. Like just body count as
3:23 an idea. Not like that's that's so like 200 is crazy. >> I think it's like uh case by case and contextual, right? So let's say you're in high school and you know that you're inexperienced, too. You You meet a girl and then you heard that she's been with like five guys. That's going to rock your ████ world. Like that is a grade double A ████ >> You know? >> She's a virgin if she's only been with five guys. >> Yeah, if if you're if you're if you're older, let's say if you're in your 30s and you're looking for love, then you also yourself your stock is lower. >> Mhm. >> So like the the things that you're allowed to judge another person on also shouldn't be if you over scrutinize it, you should be scrutinized heavier as well. So, I think the case-by-case is relative to your situation. Because also, if you're older, she's older, she's going to have a lot more bodies. Like it's just it makes sense. So, to me, I'm just more like I don't want to know the number because I think it's
4:13 going to be it's like, duh, you're going to run into people that have body counts. The question is is it extreme? >> What number is it? Is it the question? >> The argument Mark Manson is saying is that that's irrelevant as a whole. >> Yeah, so we're not talking about like what's extreme, what's not extreme. We're talking about why does it matter at all? >> If a girl tells you she gets abortions, it's like, okay, that's normal. But she's like, I've had like 27 abortions. You're like, that's a huge ████ problem. >> No, that's just a number. Don't look past it. [laughter] >> You know what I mean? Like that I think it like you could increase the scale based on age, but like there's probably still like 10? That's like, okay, you can deal with 10. That's like pretty normal. >> Yeah. >> 10 is normal? >> It depends on how old you are. >> If you were like 10 body count or 10 abortions. >> Oh. >> 10 abortions is a lot. >> Are you talking about abortions? >> No, body count. >> Oh, okay. >> [laughter] >> I thought you were still talking about
5:03 abortions. My bad. >> Yeah, cuz that's pretty crazy. Imagine you're like she told you had 27 abortions. Like if I'm like watching like How to Train Your Dragon or whatever, the whole time I'm thinking how many abortions she had. [laughter] I can't even concentrate during a movie. That's crazy. >> And the reason I'm saying my part is cuz I that happened to me in this exact way of like I thought I met my absolute perfect partner and I didn't care about body count at the time. I was the same way where I'm like, that's not a useful metric. I don't think it really matters. It's more about how the person is. And I I couldn't shake it. >> Cuz she was like, I got with 150 and you're like, oh my god. >> Well, yeah, that was extreme, though. >> 150? >> Yeah, that's what I mean. But I was a person that had this mental I think you don't know until you're in that situation. And then you have to be like you know, be real with yourself. Some people can take that. Some people really don't care genuinely. I don't think this
5:53 is an issue that you should preach doesn't matter. I think you have to find out for yourself. >> Yeah, for sure. >> But I guess it >> I Yeah, I think it's about defining what like bothers you. So like for example, what about that number made you go off? ████ that's a lot. >> The thing that bothered me was that you always want to know that the thing that you attained was a hard thing to get. You always want to know that like I slipped through because I'm special, because I did this, because I am these certain things. You don't want to be like, "Oh, wait, it's the door wasn't even locked." >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? Like I'm a freaking master locksmith and I you know >> The door wasn't even closed, brother. >> Yeah, it wasn't even closed. So that it's that feeling of like >> free valet. >> Right, it's it's just that thing where like you want to know that like oh, a bunch of dudes got rejected before me.
6:45 That's really what you >> Yeah, I know. >> But what if it was like high body count, like a hundred, but she rejected like ten thousand? That's pretty good ratio, right? Right? >> Yeah. >> One percent acceptance rate, you're pretty good. >> what I think it is? It's because the dynamic in dating women can ████ any ████ time they want. So to take that forbidden fruit, where guys when you get a high body count, you have to ████ work for it. >> You have to try, yeah. >> Unless you're like really good looking and girls are throwing themselves at you and you're rich and celebrity. >> Then you're like the point 01% yeah. >> A lot of girls don't have to be to get a high body count. Cuz a lot of guys will ████ anything, right? So then it's a different mentality and it is sexist. Like it is it is because the
7:35 to obtain it for a guy, it's so much harder versus for a girl. So when when girls are indulging in this, it seems like something is wrong. Like it is wrong for guys to be like be a ████ ████ sex addict and have like 300, you know, >> Yeah, it's wrong both ways. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. >> Like it does. But then there's a difference in in in in in in I think how we judge it. >> Oh, for sure there's a double standard. >> There is there is. But and then to be blind of that is ████ stupid. >> You know what's a crazy thought? And this I think only comes because like I'm getting way older. Like I feel like when you get with your lady, it's like almost like a like a zipper, right? Like your zip like first it's separate and then you get zipped together and then now that thing is like one at the end. In a few years, me and Geo would have
8:25 been together longer than we're not. Cuz we're going to hit 20, right? And then we're going to hit 25. And then so when you look back, this zipped together part is so dope that we actually wish we had a less body count with each other because then everything would be zipped and all our memories would be shared versus having had our own memories and then we are are sporadic and not cohesive with the rest. So it's like now as I get older, I do go, "Oh ████ this is why they were telling us to ████ less when we're younger and then save yourself or whatever." So with that in mind, I also do think the higher the body count is, the it's just not going to be good even later on in stages in life if you are aiming for >> long-term relationship. >> Yeah, the zipper to If you're just trying to be like, "I just want to ████
9:16 and have fun." then it doesn't even matter. I'm just dating. Um but if you if you end up trying to like close the zipper all the way, you'll get to a point where you're even thinking, man, it would I totally should have ████ less. >> You ████ mayor. >> I So so I I I think like I think if like let's say if a guy ████ over like 500 girls and then um he judges a girl when she's like ████ five guys and then he's like uh uh right? That's ████ weird. >> No, it go It should go both ways for sure, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like like it's like but I do think though there is a difference like if a guy's only ████ like three girls and she's ████ like 15 dudes and then he'd be like I don't know. I don't know about that, man. Like that that's really weird. And
10:06 I And I think it's okay to do that because there's girls that will not get with you because you used to be a drug dealer in your past life. So to me the judgment isn't just about sex and body count and things like that. I think there's like even if you don't do it anymore and you changed it's kind of like bro like you I don't want to start with that kind of baggage. So I I think it it could it could be a lot of different things. It could be like >> It's just another issue, yeah. >> Yeah, and I think it goes both ways. Like there's guys that get rejected because the girl's not down with whatever history he had. >> Of course, yeah, totally. >> So I think body count is a legitimate number. >> It should go both ways and and and you should deserve to answer for it either way if you're a guy, yeah. >> Cuz you decided to recklessly go out and ████ and do whatever. So it's like I
10:56 think everyone can go like yeah, you had your college years. >> That's why I think maybe Mark Mark Manson's a little bit biased too because he has said himself that he has a high body count himself. So maybe I think guys that's had high body counts are more open to a girl with high Yeah, they're more open to like wiping the clean slate, being like this doesn't matter. >> It does make a lot of sense, yeah. >> It also makes sense for the guy who wrote a book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a ████ to Not Give a ████ >> Cuz I feel like to go with your analogy, the the hard part I think is transitioning from high body count to even wanting to be monogamous. Cuz when you start like ████ like a lot of people, none of them it means nothing. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It changes the meaning for you, yeah. Yeah, cuz that made me go, "Hmm, I wonder if he's even married." >> You know what I mean? Like it's like, do you even want to be in a long-term relationship if you're just like ████ all the time? >> I'm not sure if he's married, but I know
11:46 he doesn't have kids. >> Oh, okay. Cuz I've even heard from people that have like multiple marriages and they have kids like all over the place. They're like, man, like in the with my zipper analogy, like it'd be nice if all those kids were under one umbrella, you know? Cuz this is like ████ three, four, five umbrellas. Cuz now I have memories all scattered all over the place. >> I just think I think he's missing it where when he says we're all as men supposed to ascribe to the idea that it shouldn't matter. It's more like find the men that it matters to them and the ones that don't. Lucky for you, it doesn't matter to you. That's great. If it does matter to you, your job is not to make it not matter. Your job is to find somebody that meets your criteria. That's just one more feature of the criteria. And it's nice. It's like another issue that It's another issue that could come up later. It'd be a problem for you if you really care about that. But if you don't, great. Easy.
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