0:00 So, Bonus was just telling us about the case of Lindsay Clancy, which is an insane story that I'm only now just like getting grips on. Um, tell us about again, Bonus, like who Lindsay Clancy is and what happened to her. >> So, she's a labor and delivery nurse, or she was. Um, and she was married in Ohio with three kids, three young kids. Um, and she was experiencing postpartum psychosis. >> Mhm. >> And yeah, that's her. Um, and she strangled all three of her kids one day. >> Is she a single mama? >> She [snorts] is now. I mean, her kids are deceased and she's her her ex-husband. >> She has an ex-husband now. She's
0:50 divorced. >> she during the time she was having psychosis and like postpartum, did she Do you know she had a partner or not at the time? >> she's married. Uh, she was married. Her husband like they were a full family. >> Yeah. >> Um, actually the day that this happened, she asked him to go pick up, you know, to go food and something from the pharmacy. And so, uh, he was gone for 55 minutes. And so, in the 55 minutes is when she strangled the kids and then she actually tried to hurt herself as well and jumped out the the window. So, she's actually paralyzed from the waist down, I believe. >> Yeah. So, in court, she's like in a wheelchair? >> She's in a wheelchair. She actually has 24-hour care. So, that happened in like 2020, 2023. The trial is actively happening right now. It's a 6- to 8-week trial. But she's still at a hospital where she gets continuous amount of care
1:40 because she I mean, there's a whole list of all her injuries. I mean, it was bad. Like she had a lot of stuff. And they actually showed a picture of her in the hospital at one point. >> So, I'm assuming that postpartum psychosis is like a severe version of postpartum depression? >> Yeah. >> it the same thing? >> It's it's not the same and I I don't know too much about this, but um it it's when the depression gets to like mania or like when it's manic and then psychosis is when you're like hearing voices and she she said that someone like she heard a male voice speaking to her and when she was actually strangling them she was telling them to like um for the kids to go to God. >> Oh my god. Holy jeez. >> Is it because they had like a ring or Nest camera that heard her saying that or she's just re-recalling what she said? >> She was I think she recalled that. So
2:30 that was that was spoken during the during court. >> Wow. >> So like one of the biggest uh dilemmas about this seems to be that they're trying to argue that she was given over medication and prescription meds that may have pushed her condition into a more harmful state. Is that what's happening? >> Well, so this specific case which can be confusing, the case is not about whether or not she murdered the children. >> Yeah, they they they said they don't they already are willing to admit that happened. >> Yeah, that's they already know that. But what they're arguing um what the defense and the Commonwealth are arguing is should she go to prison for what she did or should she be admitted into a mental hospital because she was she's psychotic. Like she's going through she was going through psychosis and that's what she experienced.
3:20 >> The psychosis though could have been caused by the medication. So the psychosis could be like from another source. So it's like so it's like super layered. >> Not because of the medication, but because she wasn't getting the support that she needed from healthcare to to get back to normal. >> Oh. >> She wasn't getting the help, but that's an even separate that's like a whole different lawsuit. So behind the scenes so the jury right now doesn't know cuz it's separate from this case so they can't know this, but the ex-husband and Lindsey both have lawsuits for the um what do you call it? The >> The hospital or the healthcare or >> The healthcare providers that were so the psychiatrist and like uh the care people um on their mishandling of her case. >> Oh, and so they can't they the cases can't be used >> So her ex-husband
4:10 >> doesn't know about that. So all they're trying to figure out is does she need mental help and go to the hospital and stay in the mental hospital? >> it like premeditated murder one? >> Correct. Yeah, but the what's interesting about it is that if she goes to the mental like a mental facility, if she's ever deemed back to normal again, she's free to go. Like she does not She does not go to a prison after that. >> So she she would be mentally rehabilitated. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah, but she has like over 200 character witnesses. Her ex-husband is still on her side and came out publicly right after that or maybe like a month or two later. There was a I think it was like a New York some some sort of journal that uh he journalist that he met with, but he has very much supported her, said she was an amazing mother. She just didn't get the help
5:01 that she needed and she has so many character witnesses that spoke on trial for her that have and even witnesses from the uh Commonwealth side so the or the prosecutor's side trying to you know, use it against her, but it I don't think it helped them because they all talked about her being a loving mother. >> Oh, how are they saying like what evidence do they have that like she wasn't getting the help that she needed? >> There's I mean it's all all the prescriptions that she was prescribed, all of the doctor's notes um cuz I don't know if you can pull it up, but like the medication the amount of medications that she was on in a very short period of time is pretty insane. >> So >> She was on a lot. >> They can get other doctors to comment on
5:51 that and then they could be like, "That's too much." >> Yeah, I think the specialists or not the experts, I think those are toward the end of the trial. Right now, we're still in the like building of the character. So cuz we're only on like week one or two of the trial right now out of six to eight weeks. So I think those experts come later. >> Yeah, it says it says that she was over prescribed to the point of having 13 different medications over a 4-month period and on the night of the killings, there were six of them in her system. One of them is Seroquel, which is an antipsychotic med and it says >> That didn't work. >> It says that in her body there was double the dosage. >> Well, that night though she's trying to she was trying to go. >> Oh, she's trying to go. Okay. But then it still it still said it's 10 times below what would be lethal. And then there's Remeron, which is a antidepressant.
6:42 Um there's Trazodone, another anti- >> Well, these things aren't working. >> Lamictal, a mood stabilizer, Ativan, a anti-anxiety med, Valium as well. All of that's in her system at the same time. >> It could all like, you know, they have different mechanisms on each other and they could have >> Canceled it. >> Or not or maybe made it crazier. Yeah, made a cocktail make it crazy. >> Is that like when I smoke weed after ecstasy so I could go to sleep? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, but it could be more like the way you would drink alcohol and then and then take ecstasy and now your ecstasy is like 10 times more powerful. >> On top of that, her other prescriptions that that weren't in her system at the time was Zoloft, Buspar, Hydroxyzine, Klonopin, Flo- like a lot of >> She had a lot of stuff and in 4 months is that's not a long time.
7:32 >> You know where my dark mind goes though is that to protect the drug industry, they can't allow the drugs to be the cause of her psychosis. >> Well, they're going to call it the mishandling of the care though, not necessarily the drugs. >> It'll be like procedurally, huh? >> They're going to They're going to get the practitioners, I think, is what that's going to sound like. Because they're the ones that have to prescribe it and care and like look for, you know, they have to pay attention to all of that. >> Right. >> feels like that was mishandled and so does her ex-husband. Like having two different lawsuits about that? >> Yeah. Geez, what's your opinion personally on like postpartum psychosis and stuff like that? >> I don't really understand it, but I understand to some extent psychosis and um I think there's a big gap in our system. And when everyone talks about the mental health crisis, I just uh I
8:23 see it more and more every day. Um cuz it really does seem like and I don't know this personally, right? But just by watching this case, it really does seem like she was really trying to get help and she wasn't getting what she needed. And now she's paying for it for life and her whole life is changed and three babies were killed. >> Yeah, and they're all single-digit age, too. Well, what if it was a spirit and it's >> as young as like 8 months, I think. >> Like it's an evil spirit. >> What if this is like a paranormal incident? >> Yeah, like you know how some stuff science doesn't catch up to the supernatural ████ and then like we used to think like like what? Like schizophrenics or whatever, you know, you just you just didn't know. >> Oh, okay, like how schizophrenic people are considered possessed. >> psychosis and all these things like it could be like something that science can't explain yet. Imagine being in a
9:13 cot like so much drugs that you can be a completely different human being that's being taken over or whatever. Something happens. >> Yeah. >> And it's literally not you. Like you don't think you're doing it. >> Right. >> So, I'm like >> Yeah, that's her cuz she's so sad when she thinks about her kids' past. Cuz she's >> I don't think that we understand mental illness as much as we need to. Um and I even think like with the prescriptions, it's kind of trial and error. You have to just you have to try the medication that works for you, and then you have to taper it on and off and on and off and just continue to reintroduce like the different medications. Everyone's kind of guessing. >> That's crazy. >> And I don't think people take, especially with postpartum, I don't think people take it seriously. >> any research that has kind of shown like what exactly is happening when women go
10:03 through postpartum uh psychosis? Like what why does that even occur? >> Did Did you ever experience postpartum anything postpartum depression or anything? >> No. >> Cuz there's even stories about like unmedicated people that go on um like postpartum like whatever and they throw their babies away and ████ They go crazy. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, but I don't know how you even study that. >> I don't know. There's a I have a a person who's going through postpartum mania right now. Like right now. >> Damn. >> And and uh people are just like trying to uh I guess like we're trying to talk to other people about it around her circle to be like, "Hey, how are you handling it? How are you like are you are you answering every time she calls? Every time she messages?" Cuz she's doing a lot. She's like, "I've never known this person to
10:54 really uh be very social with me." And now it's like overly social. Like I'll just my phone will go off in the middle of night and it'll be like a new group chat that she started with a bunch of people I've never met. >> the mania. >> Yeah, and we're just like Yeah, she's just like >> Is she getting help? >> Yeah. Yeah, and she's aware of it. She's going to therapy and she knows it's happening, but she can't stop it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's all like everything's in motion, but like we're trying to figure out on our end like what's the best way to not make it worse, you know? Like are we supposed to engage? Are we supposed to like encourage? Are we supposed to dissuade it? Like what do you do? You know what I mean? Cuz I don't really know like she like if she's >> It's difficult to treat people logically when they're not being logical. So when when I know someone's got their You know, we have an animal brain, right? And sometimes the animal brain takes over. You got to
11:44 uh To me, I become zookeeper. So I'm like, I know you're not human right now. So now you're leopard. >> Yeah. >> Or whatever you are, I got to handle you like that. >> But like let's say you have a postpartum mania friend and they're like "Hey, what are you doing right now?" Like I want to come over. Let's go jogging. Like are you supposed to say, "Okay, let's go jogging." so that or are you supposed to say, "No, you're being crazy." >> [laughter] >> Like which one causes more damage, you know what I mean? >> I would say it depends on like priority, right? Like is she bouncing on her baby? Like leaving? Cuz she should be a mother right now. This ████ baby needs titty, right? Or like Or like let's say it is nice because she needs to get out and then like just chill or like hang. You just deal with their crazy and you go run around the block with her a couple of times. >> Yeah. >> So I I think it depends on priority. Like are you pulling her away from her
12:36 child that she needs to feed right now? >> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. >> Or if her coming over, it's like, "F███, does that involve her getting in a car? Is that even safe?" >> Yeah, exactly. Like how much I don't I don't think I know the I guess like they have ways to treat this, but doesn't the whole circle around her also have to know like how are we supposed to respond? You know what I mean? Cuz she might be getting her treatment, but then we're also supposed to follow suit in some way, but I'm like >> girls got so many problems? They got like postpartum whatever, but then for guys it's post nut clarity. >> [laughter] >> That's true. >> It's like it's so different. >> Which one would you rather have? >> We we get clearer and smarter. >> You know, with all this ████ I still wouldn't choose to be a man. >> Oh, [laughter] yeah? >> Okay. Sounds like what a woman would say. >> Oh, you you've never experienced post nut clarity. >> That's psychosis. >> Did you hear about the lesbian lady that
13:27 uh became a man and then after she went through the experience >> No, as a as a test cuz she's like a journalist so she went to like write about the experience of a man. >> Okay. >> And then so after she went through the experience she felt so bad that she she offed herself. >> What? >> Yeah, about because she >> That was just all depressing. >> [laughter] >> Did she write about why she was offing herself? >> No, no, she wrote about the experience and she actually felt really She first came into it about like oh guys got it easier. Guys are ████ what >> Why would she kill herself if she's a woman though? >> No, no, no, like but when she went back she that memory of her experience being a man haunt >> Traumatized her? For so long? >> From what she went through as a guy? What happened to her as a guy that was worse than just >> just stay a guy? >> just no, no, she thought that being a like doing that that time and how she
14:18 was so wrong that experience was so traumatizing that she was like what the I don't I can't I can't live with this anymore. >> Jeez. >> It's tough being a guy. We all need a hug. >> That's the real post nut clarity. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]
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