0:00 If Michael Jackson came back right now, I bet you everybody that genuinely believe that he did whatever, they still might be down to go to his concert cuz you would you would be witnessing greatness. Or if R Kelly had a concert, I think it'd be packed. Probably would be. Packed, to be honest. All right, what did you want to ask about Kanye? I'm just I'm just curious like you guys all saw that he like just out of nowhere dropped some some concerts at the SoFi, right? And then like a couple more. >> Massively sold out, right? >> They're in Not only massively sold out, it was like the talk of the town. Is that when he's on top of the dome that's like ████ lighting up? Yeah, there's nothing but social media clips. Everybody's loving it and stuff like that. And like I could have sworn the last time Kanye was for real in the news, everybody was going crazy cuz he was doing like that Heil Hitler song and
0:51 he's the most controversial, problematic artist in the game. Yeah. And it's like like everybody's just cool like I'm I'm just wondering like where's the part where you're like really loud about something or like a you know, feeling politically this way or not down for this type of rhetoric or something, but then it's like culturally this is still like the hypest ████ to go let's be sold out and like the world's all good with it. Like I'm curious at what that line is. >> I don't think a lot of his fans actually cared, but it's his his fans always been fans, but it's been outside people condemning him. I think everyone still ████ with them. That's that's why. That's what I thought too. I always thought like the way that I viewed it was you know, he always has those secret concerts whether it was like in Korea or whatever or the random one in a giant warehouse or desert in the middle of Vegas. Like he always has those secret concerts and they're always sold out. And I felt like it was uh
1:43 always one of those things where the people that really ████ with them really view him as like someone beyond his time. And then even all the crazy ████ that he would say about, you know, like Adidas or like the music industry. People thought he was crazy then and then now people are going, "Oh, s███." All this everything that he's saying is coming like the puppeteers are the puppeteers, right? And then so it's almost like people are like, "Damn, he was just 3 years ahead of his time and he sounds crazy during those times, but I think everything he does reaffirms to his fans why he's so dope and I think people continuously, his true fans, ████ with him harder than ever, in my opinion. >> I think like and this probably the most taboo way of approaching it. I think a lot of people were feeling what he was saying about the ████ that was supposedly the worst ████ he could say. I think a lot of people resonate with
2:34 that and I think it's very similar to like how Trump got elected where you you know, for for the popular media, they're making it seem so ridiculous and so objectively wrong that Trump should be elected that everyone who supported him just got quiet and voted. So, it's Kanye's the same thing. People aren't going to be like, "I agree with the anti-Semitism." But, they're still going to show up and they're just not going to say anything about what he said, but they're feeling it. Because I think like if you you take something that like uh anything in the world and I'm a I'm a proponent for like if everybody is telling you you can't even talk about something, I want to talk about it more. I think that that's a ████ red flag that like, "What? So, we just can't even ████ discuss it?" So, the more that they try to just like flat-out silence [snorts] what he's saying and not create a conversation or dialogue out of it, I think you have more people kind of like in the shrubs that are like, "Well, I'm going to still support this guy. I'm just not going to make it a badge of
3:24 honor, but I'll be there." I'm the same way. I'm like, "I don't even agree with that ████ but because you want it to not even be a discussion, I'm going to go harder on it." Yeah. Cuz it's like it's it's not the it's not the topic anymore. It's about you trying to silence a pure discussion. Yeah. Yeah, as if And plus like he's seen parts of the world that none of us will ever see. He's seen floors of buildings we'll never see, levels that we'll never see. He knows something more than we ████ do. Like that's And you cannot not admit that, right? Like people that are like A-list celebrities or whatever eventually come to a level where they see something the normal person will never see. How they feel about it, I can't decide for them what that is. If he comes out of that room saying some crazy ass ████ I'm not just going to think he's nuts, I'm going to think he saw something real or he heard something real or like someone told him something or he discovered how things are
4:15 controlled or capped or whatever. I want to know more about that. I don't think he should just be silent just because, you know, the people that he's saying are behind something are a protected group that have laws against asking questions. Like that feels more fishy to me than just like, you know, I think like people were feeling it and I think all you're doing when you condemn somebody is you just force their fandom into silent support and that is a worse result. >> Yep. I think. But I also look at artists as and comedians and performers as alarm sounders, not necessarily philosophers that I should listen to. Because that's more for like leaders of the community that can organize a group and take some actionable steps. But I think artists are kind of like these people that are halfway in dreamland and crazy world,
5:06 but they're also at the forefront of cult culture and going like sounding the alarm about fresh new ideas. Some ideas will stick, some ideas won't, but they're using creativity to shine a spotlight on certain things. Now whether we agree about it or not, I don't know. I mean that that's all up to the people to decide. But I think that when it comes to creativity, there shouldn't be this like same scrutiny that you have in a normal conversation. So like when you see a comedian testing his jokes, now it's gone to this place where people are like, oh, those are those jokes should just not be done. And I'm all like, what do you mean? Like like, who are you to decide like, why are you the word police?" >> harmful like sentiment or whatever. Yeah, let me >> That's usually what they say, yeah. Let
5:56 people go off and if if it doesn't sell, it doesn't sell because people don't like it. >> sucks, it sucks. Whatever, yeah. And then just but it's not up to you to police the language. It's not up to you to like say what's appropriate or inappropriate. >> Also, I don't know everything. I still think that like he's a artist when it comes to promotion. I think he's a ████ wizard when it comes to marketing. So, do I think that if the whole world was Nazi, would he say anti-Nazi is the way to go? Yeah, I do. I think he'll just be defiant over whatever the culture as a whole feels because that's how you stand out and I think it's a very basic thing. So, like if everybody suddenly was anti-Semitic, he'd probably be extremely a Jewish supporter. You know what I mean? He would just do the opposite cuz that's he's probably learned by now that like that's the first way to do it, you know? Which not everybody has the courage and not everyone is at a stance
6:48 where that would be beneficial to them to switch. >> Or be able to execute on it. >> Exactly, yeah. In an artistic way. Yeah, yeah. But I think a rock star has always been someone that was like against the grain, against the status quo, but there were consequences because now you're a social outcast. But then when it got super commercialized, it's like this fake activism, right? Cuz like people are fighting for gay rights, but not a lot of people are actually against it. >> Yeah. So, it's like this fake like, "We're going to fight racism, but not a lot of people are for racism anymore." Like, you're not really fighting the same battles of the '60s. Yeah, right. So, like they're they're out here like posing as some rebel, but you're actually the majority. And I think that's especially in that world, yeah. >> Yeah. So, like that's where I think
7:38 Connie is a true rock star because like he's facing consequences for sticking to whatever his beliefs are, right? Like, he's banks won't work with them, he lost Adidas deal, whatever. I don't think a lot of true rebels and rock stars like today would do that. Well, not I mean um not true, but you know, like the the facade of a rebel. >> Yeah, most don't. Like, you know, like the famous example is Metallica, where their metal and then when the whole Napster, Limewire ████ went down, you'd think that'd be the most metal ████ ever. Like, ████ the studios. They're like, "No, no, no, we need our checks though. We need our checks." >> They wanted to sue regular people for hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> Like, dude, that's like the most non-metal thing ever. >> Most non-metal thing. Yeah, exactly. But, there's also that thing of like, you know how there's like fake rebels out there where like you were saying how it's like um it's almost like it's a plant where they
8:29 look like they're going against the machine, but they're complying hard with the machine. Or the machine or it's part of the machine. You know, like like some people might have argued a few years ago that like, oh, the whole hate against Kanye like it's all manufactured. It's all to promote like it's at this point you know it's not anymore. You know what I mean? Like, it's gone so ████ far and he's had such real world implications and so much against him that for the first time in probably ever, like, you're really seeing a guy against the machine winning. Yeah. And it's ████ weird. That gets traction, too. Yeah, which is pretty crazy. It's it's really crazy to see. The cool the thing that I think that he does that is cool, I felt like he's never really changed who he was. You know, starting with like uh college dropout, like late registration, all that stuff. He's always just pointed out and he had a very uh strong stance
9:21 on his point. Like, none of his music Like, all of his music has a voice. Nothing is really like even if it is a club jam or radio hit, everything has a position that he takes from every single thing that he does. And that's something that I can respect cuz you never really got diluted by the system and like, "Oh, I'm just going to make radio hits and then when you listen to it it doesn't really like have any meaning. Like every single album has meaning. Even where like the one where it's like his mom is saying like or he says Donda like a thousand times. Like he goes so he breaks every single rule. >> He's just doing what he wants, yeah. >> Every ████ rule. It's like people love him more for it. Yeah. You know? Or like we even when he like the Sunday service type ████ He just randomly pulls up with like 50 person choir. You're like, what the ████ Top of the hill at Coachella. Yeah, he's just ████ nuts and then even when people go like um like when when he was what is it called?
10:13 When Adidas the deal fell through, I think he either like bought the rights or he made Yeezy his own ████ now and then he made his own website and it sold way better than it ever did with Adidas. >> his ████ like dentist Super Bowl ad commercial stuff. Like paying like millions of dollars for like this 14 second spot of him at the dentist. So what's up, guys? I spent like all the money for the commercial um on these new teeth. Right. Yeah, exactly. That's why I think like if you're not paying attention, if you're just dismissing it, you're probably missing one of the greatest case studies of our era. Like I may not be like a huge fan of him, but I'm a ████ massive fan of what he's doing because I think that can be applied to anyone. And if you have the opposite sentiment that he does, do what he's
11:04 doing with the argument that you have and that's the most ballsy thing you can do. Yeah. You know what I mean? But no one's willing to risk their bag. I think that's what makes me respect Kanye is like he's willing to risk it all. Yeah. And then um but the but what really stood out to me is when he showed up on Alex Jones with a ████ mask. >> [laughter] >> And then the whole time I can't even take him seriously. But like he [snorts] is his persona is so crazy that it also makes you look stupid by taking him seriously. >> [snorts] >> Yeah. Also, every time you think that he's at the point of no return cuz he said the craziest thing possible. >> Like that song? Yeah. Yeah. Like that, right? You think that's it. There's no way this guy's done. He's bigger than ever. >> Yeah, selling out SoFi? That's insane. >> What the hell, right? You have to pay attention at some point. You can't you be, "Hey, nonny no." or like angry about
11:55 it. Like at some point, take a ████ note. That's ████ We've never seen that. >> Yeah. But doesn't that mean that the machine is actually weaker now? Because in the past, I don't think that one person could have stood up. >> That's what I mean. I don't think >> Or the machine is so big that you could have people stand up and it won't stop it. Yeah. That's why I think like people were really feeling it. Like how some people think it's it's just a sensationalist thing that like people are just Kanye fans and that's it. No, I think this fool said some ████ that hit the right spot for a lot of people. For better or for worse. I have no idea what that is, but I know the things that people say he's just saying crazy ████ to another person, that was real ████ >> But yeah, it's like really resonating. Yeah. So it's like are you do do you still want to keep dismissing that he said anti-Semitic things? That he said
12:45 whatever? Do you want to keep dismissing it? Or do you I think the only way you could really get to the bottom of it is is to allow the discussion to take place. But I actually don't think most people like care about anti-Semitism or homophobia. I think most of it is performative because um I mean like when Chick-fil-A CEO was like super homophobic, like it didn't stop their sales. >> It doubled sales. Yeah. And they have a one in a gay community in West Hollywood that that didn't close down. So I think a lot of people the the outrage is performative. It's online. Um but in reality, I think more people care about like, "Oh, that's a dope concert. I went to that." You know, and I think I think also we're more basic. If it's ████ dope music
13:36 like we can we can separate the artist and the If Michael Jackson came back right now, I bet you everybody that genuinely believed that he did whatever, they still might be down to go to his concert cuz you you'd be witnessing greatness. Or if R Kelly had a concert, I think it'd be packed. Probably be packed to be honest. >> R Kelly's still on the radio. You know, it's like what if you if you got it, if you're doing something great just like we were talking about Cesar Chavez or Martin Luther King. It's like we should just accept that anybody who did great ████ probably did some terrifying things as well. But I think there's also it should be noted. I think people need to ████ do some data crunching and figure out if this is really a a component. I think it would be different if you had a white artist being as defiant as Kanye is. I think because Kanye's black, I think
14:27 he has a set of supporters that you can't ████ tell them how to feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But like I think white people are more susceptible to like, "Oh, this is bad. Okay, I'm sorry." You know what I mean? Like But then like when you have like a That's like That's like saying if if if Kanye did that Heil Hitler song and it was a bunch of white dudes in the garage saying that. There would be some trouble, right? >> And I Yeah, I do think black people are untouchable though when it comes to racism. So like they can be anti-Semitic. They could Or like rap music being of homophobic. Yeah, they could be whatever. Yeah. It's like you can't because I just don't think that like after a while you can't tell their fandom how to feel about their own culture's music. You just can't. You can't be like, "You know, that's really bad, right?" Like they don't give a ████ I mean he does have a worldwide
15:17 fan base, but if you talk about his like black audience they probably aren't at They don't care about anti-Semitism. Like If you ask most >> Yeah, they got bigger problems than that. Exactly. [laughter] That's a very European like pain point. >> Yeah, they think it's like number enemy number one, yeah. >> I I feel bad, but like I have no connection to anti-Semite Like I have Jewish friends, but like it's no It's not a It's That's a European issue. Like I have more guilt over Nanking and ████ you know? Like That to me is like, "Yo, that's crazy." But then I just think it's a It's a very Eurocentric pain point that like doesn't really matter to the rest of the world. >> like can you really convince Armenians that's more important than the genocide? >> Exactly. Yeah, that's more important for them. >> going to move that before that for them, you know? And I think that's that's the that's the What do you call it? Like
16:08 It's a Eurocentric viewpoint where it's so deep in That's the worst thing that they've been through that that That's all That's all they could think about as the He's the epitome of evil. But in Asia, Hitler's not the epitome of evil. Japan is, you know? So like I just think for them it's one of those things where um it works for them that they're not white in a way where they can talk freely about a lot of this stuff cuz even right now Candace goes hard on that stuff. And it's it's probably because she's a black woman. Like They're like, "Let her just ████ yap. Who cares?" But if it was a white guy they're going to get Charlie Kirk. Uh yeah, okay. Yeah. That's a great way to put it. >> think they take black people seriously in America at all. I think they fake like they do. Like the you know, the media. Yeah. That's why they could say
16:58 whatever they >> they really need something, they're like, "All right, you know?" But that's why they're the perfect kind of person to sound the alarm or say whatever and say exactly how they feel because like what are they going to do? Call them racist? Yeah. Like >> [laughter] >> You can't You can't cancel them. When you look at it from the scope of like how much the media is on the black community's side, Yeah. you would think that they already got the problems solved, but they're not. You know what I mean? Like So, you can ask the black community they're ████ good now? Yeah. They're probably not They probably wouldn't say they're all good now. But then from our point of view, the media seems to be like they got their back. Yeah. So, what the hell? Like What happened there? Mhm. Yeah, it's a it's a really weird, but I think that's a big reason why Kanye is is uh
17:48 doing the doing it the way that he is. I think like any other like a ████ Chinese guy, ████ gone. That dude's Jack Ma'd in like a day. I don't know. Professor Jiang is getting hit, but >> selling out SoFi though. >> No, no, he's not. Yeah, not even close. You're right.
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