0:00 I think the problem is that if you have a coach, right, and you're with him, let's say, 10 years, and then on the 10th year, he breaches this whole thing by getting romantic. Now, it redefineses every touch in the whole 10 years. >> Maybe it took him 10 years to fall in love. All right, we're going to talk about something a little bit difficult, but don't be afraid to voice your opinion without uh thinking deeply about it. No judgment. >> I got you trying to hide hide your hide your boner because he's about to say something. >> Both of us have boners. But look who's also hiding his boner. Look at you. Boner hider. >> I don't. >> I just sexual energy in this room is palpable. >> I can show the world. >> Leave it like that for the whole video. I'll give you five bucks. >> Yeah, for the video. >> I'll give you five bucks. >> Leave it. Leave it. >> Hold on. Let me make you look bigger. >> I think we're going to get demonetized. >> It looks like a big vagina right now.
0:50 Dude, >> demonetized for that. >> Just make sure we we just blur that out. >> Remember one time Bart pulled his pants down even though he had shorts underneath it and we GOT DEMONETIZED. OH YEAH, >> just put Nick's photo of your dick. >> Oh, I mean I think Ryan's trying to talk about something serious. >> Sorry. >> It's okay. This helps. >> Let's keep going. >> Uh, so do you guys think that and and I'll tell you why I'm asking, but like >> do you believe that an adult can groom another adult? >> I think manipulate. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. >> But at what point is it like grooming, you know, cuz when when something >> Okay, the short answer, yes. If I'm if I'm 70 years old and there's like a 40-year-old who's like seen my success and wants to like follow in those footsteps, then I have that ability to like influence the way that they're thinking because they're already like swallowing everything that >> that's called mentorship.
1:40 >> But like you know what you know, >> but then that's where the manipulation turns into grooming, right? >> But the manipulation, even manipulation straight up at a point is looked at as like after 18, you're just responsible for your own actions whether you get duped or not. Like nobody's going to be like, "Oh, you were a victim. You were also an adult." >> I think that's fair. Unless that same 40-year-old in my position that I'm talking about is neurode divergent. >> You think that's a a deciding factor? >> I just think that that's that's the same reason why when somebody gets away with murder because they pled >> because they have low IQ. >> Yeah. Or something like that, right? It's like that's just I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying like that's just kind of how society deems certain cases. >> Oh wow. >> Are things not case by case? Are things not >> Yeah. Okay. So, social psychology grooming when someone slowly builds trust, emotional dependence or influence over another
2:31 person, often a minor or vulnerable person to manipulate, exploit or abuse them later. >> What level of neurode divergence classifies you as vulnerable? >> I'm just saying that's an example. Another version of vulnerable is like financially inable, right? So, they're in a position where power dynamic. >> Yeah, that power dynamic like, "Oh, I can't afford it. Therefore, you know, you're just put into different situations, whether it be drugs, sex, or whatever. >> Okay. >> Right. So, I think that >> or I'm a boss, you're my >> Yeah. Anything where there's that version of vulnerability because of either that power dynamic or just that separation of whatever that you can provide that they need or they think that they need because you made them think they need it. The reason I'm asking is because there's a case where like um this girl >> uh who's an athlete 23 years old >> and she's claiming that um over time her coach was slowly grooming her.
3:22 >> It's very common unfortunately. >> Happens a lot with coaches. >> Yeah. >> So the first question is when did he start coaching her? >> Uh I don't think she was a minor when he started. >> But either way though if you're doing it for nefarious reasons then it's grooming. >> But is it illegal? Like is it like >> Yeah. If if your if your end goal if their end goal is to do something to take advantage >> No, it's not. I don't think it's illegal, >> right? >> But that's also decided in a in a court of law. No, cuz they could probably prove whether the what they're trying to do is nefarious or not. >> Well, that that just goes to civil suit though. That doesn't go to like federal president. >> That's true. That's true. But as as far as like your your uh responsibility, right? It's on you. If you could, they could prove you're responsible for taking someone and doing things like building trust and being a person that uh is in their life
4:12 to eventually start to make them do something usually sexual or to get something out of them. >> I think the point is it could that's definitely morally wrong, but I don't think it's arguably >> No, for sure. For sure. But I'm just saying you could Yeah, I know that. But I'm just saying like they could prove that this person was doing that over, you know, a victim, right? >> Yeah. But then you would just be like, "Man, that's really mean." >> Yeah. And they would have to pay it out, whatever. But >> I don't even know they would have to pay it out. >> But if it's like a civil suit, no. >> No. Because it's like, okay, so for here here's an example, right? I would consider some players to groom their victims. >> Yeah. That's what players do. Yeah. >> You got played, you got used for sex, but you can't go to jail for that. >> I know. I'm not at jail for it. >> Can you even be civily sued? >> No, >> you can't, right? >> Unless there's a violation between like for example, there's certain circumstances where it's not about you
5:04 got played by a dude like you got Rico Suave or whatever. >> Yeah. >> But let's say you violated something within a company. >> Yeah. Like the code of conduct was broken >> and then now you can sue the company for letting this happen. >> Yeah. >> But it's not necessarily like >> personal like you can't sue for damages or something. Look, dude. Let's say you're in college and then you you have a tutor and then the tutor grooms you and then you guys start hooking up. You think it's like they're really into you, but they never were and then it the relationship becomes abusive or whatever. It's just an unfortunate abusive relationship. It's not illegal. You can't get in trouble >> cuz even like Tinder Swindler, how that's the same concept, but it's for money. >> I don't think they could recoup those losses, right? >> Cuz they didn't get them for nothing. They sue or anything >> because it was consent. It was given
5:55 technically. >> It it wasn't like stolen. It was like it was like given >> money for this like can you give me money for that? It's like that's happening even more so between men and women on the guy part. But just this guy did it. They didn't they didn't get them. Well, so I'm just curious to know what the repercussions are for people that do civil suits based on like physical or mental damages where like what cases like what has to happen where they rule that okay you have to pay out x amount of dollars. >> I don't really know any that are both adults. >> Interesting. He's usually just minor to adult >> in this case. Like when this got posted all of the comments were like you're 23, you can't get groomed. You can't get groomed. Everyone was saying you can't be groomed. You can't be groomed because of her age. I think it's how people are viewing the word grooming >> because like technically you can be
6:45 groomed at any age, >> but it's not illegal at any age >> because people are thinking about like PDF stuff. >> They're thinking about like the minor like it's associated with minor criminal. >> Yeah. Technically grooming has that bad connotation, but like grooming could be a positive thing, too. You groom your your next your padawan to take over as CEO of your company that like that's a part of >> it's like an apprenticeship type >> that happens. It's just now negatively associated with specifically PDF >> because more commonly it ends up being nefarious. >> Yeah. And in the news it's the right word to use. But then once you say once you call it grooming in that accusation way that is almost like making some form of like you're trying to say they did something unlawful to you but that's not it doesn't count adult to adult >> nonvulnerable right >> well that's how it's going back to kind
7:36 of like what Anthony said it it it depends on what the vulnerability is so for example >> coach to student like coach to athlete >> I would argue that the vulnerability would be the context of that relationship. She has her guard down that he's going to pursue her romantically and it's going to be strictly business >> and she has her guard down because he's her coach so he's supposed to be telling her things to do or or in that situation like things can like boundaries lines are very blurred. >> I don't know what the context is, right? But like for example, let's say >> use the how about use the context of James Franco cuz that's what happened to him. He started ████ his students at his acting school and then he got cancelled, but there was no he didn't get arrested. >> He just they they fired him essentially. >> Well, the the school ended and he got ████ blacklisted in Hollywood. >> That might just be like a code of
8:26 conduct thing where it's like um it muddies the relationship, >> but it's all it's all adult to adult. >> Well, yeah. Yeah, but it's not like manipulative in the in the same way where you would manipulate a child who's cuz that's the same thing as manipulating a disabled person who has low IQ. I would say that that's completely different. That's more like, hey dude, you shouldn't be doing this because it muddies up the integrity of student teacher relationship. So like in college, you might have two consenting adults. But it's like people might look at it like, oh, there's going to be favoritism now. You're going to give them straight A's because you're they're sucking you. That's the college rules, though. Well, also also I'm I'm just asking for the actual Isn't in James Franco's case though, it wasn't like, "Hey, if you sleep with me, I'll like get you this." >> No, they didn't get anything for it. >> So So >> plus they probably wanted to ████ James
9:17 Franco. >> That's what I'm saying. Versus like Harvey Weinstein, right? Cuz like a lot of his victims were also adults. >> Yeah. >> But like that was a a very position. Number one, he's ugly as ████ Number two, that as a power play, >> but he was straight up trapping women. >> That's what I'm saying. like that go to jail even though they're adults so to speak. >> He was like whipping it out, >> but also some people won because they were, you know, >> the power >> they'll suck it to get they'll get the job >> and and came up on it. >> Yeah, they came up on it. >> You know what I'm saying? So, like it's it's it's hard because uh in that dynamic he's like he's like, I'm going to give you something also otherwise you're you're done in this. He actually like like verifiably forced himself on women though. >> Yeah. Yeah. But and they felt they they were trapped. The door was closed, right? All that stuff. This this James Franco situation. It's just the industry
10:07 decided to blacklist him because they wanted a a code of conduct. >> I don't think any of the girls were like, "He groomed me." >> Or these studios that didn't give him jobs were like, "Oh, your name is covered in bad press. We're not going to put you on our press tour." >> Like that's probably what it's more like >> in this uh claim of grooming. Like what did the guy do to her? Like was it he touched her inappropriately, she didn't like that? Or like what happened with the 23-year-old? Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm not sure, but I think it was just one of those things where it started to get romantic towards the end and then and then she got away. >> She was like, "Wait a minute. I didn't want that." >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. That's tough if she's an adult. >> Yeah. She's 23. >> Cuz I would argue that like let's say in athletics, >> you have to touch certain areas of the body, right? So, like in her mind it might be like, "Oh, he's just a coach and it's he's just supporting me doing back flips or whatever." But then maybe
10:57 all of us watch him helping her do back flips while he squeezes the ████ out of her ass and flips her over, right? >> The problem >> I think the problem is that if you have a coach, right, and you're with him, let's say 10 years, >> and then on the 10th year, he breaches this whole thing by getting romantic. Now, it redefineses every touch in the whole 10 years. >> Oh, yeah. Maybe it took him 10 years to fall in love >> to gather the courage >> to make his move. >> I guess we know now that it's not technically illegal, but do you think that the law should accommodate for something like this? >> I think it's hard. I think it's hard especially like I look at that that same anal or James Franco case is is tough, right? Because if everybody wants to do it and it's not illegal, it's clearly not illegal. your society and your industry can kind of have your codes of
11:47 conduct that aren't quote unquote law and and like your entire like if he's blacklisted, he's not getting hired anywhere or it's bad press for him. That's the same version of a punishment for not doing something illegal versus you did something illegal, go to jail. Like that's that's a crime fit the punishment type stuff, >> especially for this situation with a student athlete. Was she a wrestler by chance? >> I don't know. I don't remember >> cuz I I saw one case was like this. was a high school wrestler and she was talking about how her coach kind of was groomier and she had like text messages where he would like kind of slowly advance his position a little bit. >> He was saying weird ████ >> Yeah. And she would show videos of him doing kind of weird stuff and all that. But at that point it's like you have to expose this this guy because who knows if he's capable of doing that. He's capable of doing that to somebody else or he's done in the past. >> And was she was she an adult though? I
12:37 don't I think I think she was a teenager or a college student. But it doesn't matter though. It's like if you think that's unethical and this is your experience, you get to share it because >> I guess it's it's up to the people to decide whether this guy was doing it. And if you're doing creepy ████ like that and if you're known for doing creepy ████ then you get exposed, I think. And that's just the way the code of conducts kind of work because there's no background checks for a lot of these coaches. And so they're subject to doing creepy ████ That's why creepy ████ happens all the But this is all like out of court type stuff, huh? >> Yeah. This is just on social media. >> I also wonder like what on the flip side like how much responsibility is it on the other adult like the like in this case the female to be like um no. And this is dumb. >> Dude's a ████ creep. I'm out of here. Well, this is why as unfortunate as it is, it's like everybody needs to like
13:27 these stories, these news, these these things, the unspoken ones and the ones that come out, they all build to an equilibrium of societal understanding eventually, right? It'll be like enough people get caught or enough creeps get outed that people will like stop being so forward or like um creeps will not be in the game as much, right? And then vice versa. Enough victims feel a certain way. More people will be on guard and more people will vet better. And so it's it's unfortunate, but like more of it needs to kind of happen to like find a smarter >> equilibrium of how to accept protocol in those spaces because there's too many unprofessional private one-off. Like somebody's even in the dance space, somebody's going to hit you up be like, "Hey, can you tutor my kid?" And it has nothing there's no affiliation to a studio. There's no affiliation to a broader company or project. >> True. Yeah. Person. Yeah. >> And that's going to happen in every industry. entertainment, music, cooking,
14:17 whatever the ████ So, like no matter what, those environments will exist. If anything, there just needs to be a better societal understanding of how to see things, speak on things, acknowledge things. Parents need to be more involved. Um, like punishments in in a in a civil so sort of way or the way that we like out out people that just needs to be more consistent so that like it just becomes protocol so that we're we're just more aware of how to like handle things. I actually think this main argument is on how people define grooming because basically you have a set of people that are like that should that word is so so has so much weight to it. It should be just for the PDF in a situation that's like minor crime abuse. Right. >> I think it'll get overused if it's not >> exactly. And then on the flip side it might be like well there's players that manipulate and technically groom but
15:07 that should be a whole different word. >> Yeah. That's that's fair. Yeah. Cuz in this situation, it's like she is an adult and then he came into the game trying to like play his part and be a creep about it, but then she is an adult and then she also can't take responsibility and be like, "Wait a minute, this is weird. >> It should just be felony creeping." >> Yeah. It's like I think there's there's just Yeah. Yeah. >> So maybe we should just come up with different words for these specific
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